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firesong
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 06:38 pm |
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And what exactly is in this so-called stimulus bill?
$1.1 billion for Amtrak;
$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts;
$400 million for NASA to conduct climate change research;
$300 million for Americorps;
$1 billion for the Census;
$400 million for localities to buy "green" buses;
$650 million for the Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Program;
$600 million for the acquisition of "green" cars;
$7.7 billion for the Federal Buildings Fund;
and much, much more... including huge amounts to groups like ACORN.
This isn't economic stimulation, it's a recipe for economic disaster!
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theosophia
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 06:54 pm |
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firesong wrote: This isn't economic stimulation, it's a recipe for economic disaster!
That's only a miniscule portion of the trillion or so extra that they're spending.
That looks like a "feel good" list of nice-sounding (but actually relatively worthless) program names. Where's the rest of the money going?
And do they realize that the effect of this -- the hyper-inflation -- is gonna hurt "the little guy" even more in the future than anything is now? ... or are they counting on that?
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firesong
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 06:59 pm |
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theosophia wrote: firesong wrote: This isn't economic stimulation, it's a recipe for economic disaster!
That's only a miniscule portion of the trillion or so extra that they're spending.
That looks like a "feel good" list of nice-sounding (but actually relatively worthless) program names. Where's the rest of the money going?
And do they realize that the effect of this -- the hyper-inflation -- is gonna hurt "the little guy" even more in the future than anything is now? ... or are they counting on that?
I almost guarantee it's the latter.... bummer....=0(
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theosophia
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 07:41 pm |
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firesong wrote: theosophia wrote: And do they realize that the effect of this -- the hyper-inflation -- is gonna hurt "the little guy" even more in the future than anything is now? ... or are they counting on that?
I almost guarantee it's the latter.... bummer....=0(
I dunno. Perhaps ... but there's a saying:
Never ascribe to malice that which may adequately be explained by stupidity.
But then, malice & stupidity do make pretty good partners.
Last edited on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 07:49 pm by theosophia
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 07:51 pm |
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This harkens back to the "letter from the boss" in that it is giving a ton of money to the "non-productive" at the expense of the (next several-dozen generations of), productive.
So they changed the name "earmarks" to "shovel-ready projects". A 36-hole "disc golf" course, (read that:frisbee!), in Austin.
Do I smell RIBS?
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morningdove
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 02:03 pm |
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If they really want to stimulate the economy they could just give money to the little people like me...I would use it to get out of debt, there by helping those big companies, buy a house of my very own...again helping the real estate market...and travel some helping many other towns, states, and places....There by stimulating the economy from the bottom up...
if I do that and all the others that get money does the same..then the economy will be stimulated....they should give the money to the little people...
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Isidotus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 02:38 pm |
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morningdove wrote:
If they really want to stimulate the economy they could just give money to the little people like me...I would use it to get out of debt, there by helping those big companies, buy a house of my very own...again helping the real estate market...and travel some helping many other towns, states, and places....There by stimulating the economy from the bottom up...
if I do that and all the others that get money does the same..then the economy will be stimulated....they should give the money to the little people...
**jumps up and down waving hands** OH!! OH!! I'm little.
I very much agree with you. Funneling money from the top down to "stimulate" the economy is what got us here in the first place.
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Blue
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 04:08 pm |
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I'm skeptical about the economic stimulus package.
It would be great if it worked but I doubt it will. This thing is just going to have to run it's course.
One bright note ! If it all goes southbound for awhile it might not matter how much debt the federal govt. has piled up.
All the govt. has to do is declare bankruptcy and default on it's obligations.
Hummm ... a fresh start. I wonder what the politicos would do with an opportunity like that ?
Would there be a significant change in the way the government is run or would it be business as usual ?
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Isidotus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 04:19 pm |
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Blue wrote:
I'm skeptical about the economic stimulus package.
It would be great if it worked but I doubt it will. This thing is just going to have to run it's course.
One bright note ! If it all goes southbound for awhile it might not matter how much debt the federal govt. has piled up.
All the govt. has to do is declare bankruptcy and default on it's obligations.
Hummm ... a fresh start. I wonder what the politicos would do with an opportunity like that ?
Would there be a significant change in the way the government is run or would it be business as usual ?
The problem with the Stimulus Package, IMO, is that it does NOT address the root cause of the problem. So I really don't see it helping one iota. But hey, we'll get to pay for it for generations to come. I think it's a bit like healing and medicine. Sure medicine can relieve and "cure" what ails. But for true Healing to occur, one needs to address the root "cause" of the problem. Otherwise the dis-ease will just return again and again. Sometimes even more powerfully so.
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 04:44 pm |
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Give each and every American who paid taxes $250,000. Cash. Scrap the IRS and switch to The Fair Tax.
Problem solved. Nigh instantly.
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Blue
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 05:50 pm |
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Corvus_Antiquus wrote: Give each and every American who paid taxes $250,000. Cash. Scrap the IRS and switch to The Fair Tax.
Problem solved. Nigh instantly.
Gee .. I wish the govt. would send me 250 K.
That's just about what the bailout amounts to isn't it ?
I don't think it would solve the problem though.
Here's why :
A good six months to a year before the mortgage meltdown the hot topic here in the politics thread was the national debt. Then ... this recession hit and eclipsed that. How quickly we forget.
Firesong and Theo were right. Run the numbers and even pre-meltdown the national debt was a serious problem. With all of these stimulus packages the debt has grown even larger. That monster hasn't gone away.
Now ... that 250 k per taxpayer is money we would have to borrow. It's not money we have on hand.
I'm pretty sure that one way or another we are going to have to deal with this debt thing.
Maybe the politicians in Washington will resolve to pay it off. Frankly though, I just don't see that happening.
To my mind, the more likely thing is that they will keep putting it off for as long as they can. It's inevitable though ... sooner or later it will come to a point that it hits the wall.
The question is when ....
I kept a close eye on what the administration was up to during the last four years.
They used every economic trick in the book that I know of to hide the problem and buy a little more time. Despite the fact that they made their very best effort to keep it concealed until after the election things got so bad that it became plainly obvious that we were facing some serious problems.
Now ... The people in Washington have an inside track on this thing. They have access to the inner workings of things that most of us Americans don't.
Look at their behavior. Here we are screaming about the debt and they are acting like they just don't care anymore.
I'm left wondering if they have come to the conclusion that it's just a matter of time now.
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 06:36 pm |
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Look at their behavior. Here we are screaming about the debt and they are acting like they just don't care anymore.
Yep. Celebrating the House passage of the bill with cocktails ann Wagyu stek....
<-------------trying V E R Y hard to resist yelling "TOLD YOU SO!"
Last edited on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 06:37 pm by Corvus_Antiquus
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Inanna
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 07:01 pm |
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it's like a GOP conference in here!
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 07:28 pm |
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Inanna wrote: it's like a GOP conference in here!
Nah. More like a "people-with-heads-on-their-shoulders-instead-of-up-their" conference.
While I am still a member in good standing of the aforementioned GOP, I can assure you that I amthe ONLY one in this thread.
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Inanna
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 08:09 pm |
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so of all the people that answered in this thread, who is a democrat and who is a republican?
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Blue
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 08:54 pm |
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Corvus_Antiquus wrote: Look at their behavior. Here we are screaming about the debt and they are acting like they just don't care anymore.
Yep. Celebrating the House passage of the bill with cocktails ann Wagyu stek....
<-------------trying V E R Y hard to resist yelling "TOLD YOU SO!"
Well ... let's take the high road here.
This isn't a political issue as much as it is an economic matter.
Sitting around, pointing fingers, and playing the blame game serves no constructive purpose when faced with a serious problem.
We will either hang together or hang seperately won't we ?
The big question in my mind right now is whether or not anybody in Washington has a methodical step by step plan to take us from where we are to where we need to be ?
Honestly, I don't think anyone on either side of the fence knows what to do.
All I have seen are Band - Aids on a gunshot wound.
If anything, all of their best efforts have only served to make things worse.
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 09:21 pm |
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Blue wrote: If anything, all of their best efforts have only served to make things worse.
Because they have ALL tried to do it from the TOP DOWN.
One of the three biggest lies in all of history...."I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".
It shouldn't COME FROM the government. Our nation wasn't BUILT that way. The MOST the governmet should do is make sure nobody, )INCLUDING the government itself...), interferes whilst "WE the PEOPLE", for lack of a better phrase, "git r done"
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firesong
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 10:45 pm |
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Firesong and Theo were right. Run the numbers and even pre-meltdown the national debt was a serious problem. With all of these stimulus packages the debt has grown even larger. That monster hasn't gone away.
And it won't because they keep feeding it. That's not the way to kill a monster... no?
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firesong
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Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 10:53 pm |
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Inanna wrote: so of all the people that answered in this thread, who is a democrat and who is a republican?
I'm a registerd Republican, but I'm a financal conservative and social libertarian. I've also been aroung long enough to know the difference between an economic "bailout" and a pork barrel program to keep the right people on board.
Being a Republican or Democrat really doesn't have much to do with it from my perspective. I'm not a fan of GW, and generally try to look at issues from both sides to decide where I stand. My political leanings are a result of my analysis of the situation and the conclusions I draw from that analysis, not the other way around.
I'm not a Republican apologist; frankly, at present I'm sick to death of the party, and have almost as much distain for them as I do the Democrats; why? because in the last 8 years, both sides have opportunities to make real changes, changes that could have made a significant difference in where we stand today, but both sides chose to play politics and stuff their own pockets, while ignoring the real issues.
The economic meltdown is not real surprise; it's been pretty obvious for several years to anyone with an eye on what's really going on...
Basically, if the can't dazzle you with brilliance they'll opt to baffle you with bullshit, and there's entirely too much of the latter floating around lately...
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Blue
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Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2009 12:01 am |
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firesong wrote:
Firesong and Theo were right. Run the numbers and even pre-meltdown the national debt was a serious problem. With all of these stimulus packages the debt has grown even larger. That monster hasn't gone away.
And it won't because they keep feeding it. That's not the way to kill a monster... no?
Feed it / don't feed it ... < shrugs >
if we are past the point of no return then it doesn't matter anymore does it ?
Why let such things trouble your mind ?
Perhaps there are more pressing matters at hand.
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