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 on: March 15, 2017, 12:43:38 AM 
Started by Nymree - Last post by oldghost
Trying to place human values and purpose on something that is not human just lead to confusion . Saying something is immortal can again be seen only in our understanding . I believe in reincarnation and if that is so then am I in some form not then also immortal . What if those we call God/desses also have their bodies fade and rot away with age , think about them returning with a vast memory of what they were before . Could that be how some people can remember their pass lives because they have had so many and with each new life more of the pass ones are remembered.

One thing we should never do is place human values on something that may not in anyway be human . It is our need to think that those greater then us are like us for our peace of mind rather then some flesh devouring creature of hideous appearance . As for offsprings , I think maybe they are either sterile or reproduce very , very rarely . If they did reproduce like humans the whole universe would be jam packed with them . If they have feeling like humans and or were once human ( they do look after some of us ) then I think their value on life itself would be greater for them . That said could we in fact not be their children . Isn't that a good reason for putting up with us??.👪

 on: March 15, 2017, 12:15:36 AM 
Started by lady stardust - Last post by oldghost
Well met Lady Stardust . Have you any formal training in Veterinary medicine or is you animal healing only from your uses of Magic ?

 on: March 07, 2017, 08:34:17 PM 
Started by Nymree - Last post by Skyanne
I think Peter Beagle briefly touched on this subject in his fictional book, "The Last Unicorn", where he explored how it was impossible for something immortal to feel regret, in addition to feeling love for mortal beings.

Thinking about this as a human pretending to be an immortal:
1) I think if I were immortal I wouldn't feel any love for my immortal comrades or even immortal offspring because I would be in constant competition with them. I might want to eliminate them so that they could not rule me one day. As a mortal, I do feel compassion for my offspring, pets, and family because I know we will eventually lose each other in any given order. That makes all of us more precious, including me.

2) If I were immortal, I also would not care about anything mortal (offspring or not); mortal beings would be as insignificant as my feces that I expel and flush down the toilet, never to see again.

I guess I would make a very callous, terrible god/demigod. It's funny how our perception of what immortals value has changed over the centuries. The Ancient Greeks used to burn the fat of kindles of bones in offerings to the Greek gods, since this is the juiciest, most nutritious part of the animal for humans to eat. But no immortal needs that. Then Jesus came along and said that God does love us and is not apathetic toward us, changing that perception too. I wonder what next our theory of immortals will evolve to, as far as what these beings value and their personality traits.

 on: March 03, 2017, 03:36:24 PM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by Alchymist
What if……….

The underlying myth of Western (which means, essentially, Christian) culture seems to be the Garden of Eden story from the Book of Genesis, which I’m sure we’re all familiar with at least in outline.

The standard orthodox interpretation is that the Hebrew god Yahweh (or Iaoue; I’ve given my reasons for the alternative spelling elsewhere on the Forum), the sole Creator of the Universe, planted a beautiful garden “eastward in Eden” and placed the male and female human beings, Adam and Eve, in the garden with strict instructions not to eat the fruit from one particular tree that grew in the centre of the garden, because “in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.” Then along comes the wily Serpent, who is the Devil in disguise, who speaks to the woman, Eve, telling her that Iaoue’s prohibition is not true; “God knows ye shall not die, but thine eyes shall be opened.” So Adam and Eve eat the fruit, they don’t die and their eyes are indeed opened, they see that they are naked, are ashamed (for reasons that are never made perfectly clear) and cover themselves with fig leaves. In punishment for their disobedience, Iaoue expels them from the garden and visits various other punishments on them – and also on the Serpent. All their descendants inherit the blame for Adam and Eve’s “sin”, but can be redeemed if they accept Iaoue’s son Ieshua (Latinised into “Jesus”) as their personal Lord and Saviour.

An alternate reading of the myth, popular among Gnostics, is that the real Creator God, who is nameless and unknowable, exists in some ethereal realm far beyond the mundane world most of us mostly inhabit, most of the time, and the lesser god Yahweh or Iaoue is a mere demiurge, or subsidiary deity, who only pretends to be the almighty Creator God (and eventually almost comes to believe it), and because of his incompetence he created a flawed universe where evil seems to be mostly in charge. Acting irresponsibly, he created human beings “in his own image”, but, terrified that they might become intelligent and become equal to him – or even stop believing in him – he forbade them from eating the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, on pain of death, so that they would remain ignorant, and thus remain useful to him as slaves to take care of his garden. In this interpretation, the Serpent took pity on the poor, ignorant humans and urged them to defy Iaoue, eat the forbidden fruit and become intelligent. Despite Iaoue’s dire prediction, they didn’t die, but their eyes were opened. Thus they were of no further use as slaves and he threw them out of his Garden to make their own way in the world. And thus, the supposed “god” Iaoue lied, and the Serpent told the truth – and was, of course, punished for it, as are most truth-tellers, it seems.

This Gnostic view, with human beings as intelligent aware entities capable of asking awkward questions and coming to their own conclusions, didn’t suit the ruling Elites, the Powers That Were – and the Church and State acting in concert condemned the Gnostic interpretation and  reverted to the worship of Yahweh as Omnipotent Omniscient Creator God, condemned the Serpent to the role of Devil, and instituted the feudal system whose ruling principle was – and despite regime changes and apparent reforms, today still is – Unquestioning Obedience.

And yet….. What if……

What if there’s yet a third possible interpretation?

What if the last 3000 years of religion, theology and history is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of this primal myth?

Could it be that the Garden of Eden story, based as it is on a much older Babylonian myth, may be a distorted description of an even more ancient, indeed pre-historic, Shamanic initiation ritual?

In Shamanic cultures, a candidate for initiation is often chosen because of a vivid dream (“God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam”) during which he, or she, meets one or more spirit guides (Eve and the Serpent) or deities. He, or she, must undergo severe ordeals, or a serious illness, often as a result of consuming a normally “forbidden” substance (the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge), culminating in a simulated death (“thou shalt surely die”). This causes an enhanced awareness (“Thine eyes shall be opened”) – but his, or her, previous idyllic and peaceful (but ultimately boring) life in the Garden is now no longer possible; the candidate is now a Shaman and must see the Universe as it truly is, ask his, or her, own questions and seek his, or her, own answers. To be a Shaman is an awesome responsibility and is emphatically not for everyone.

Perhaps we can see an echo of this in the initiations into many magical orders or secret societies of recent history, and even today, wherein the candidate must undergo a simulated death – such as the third degree of  Freemasonry and indeed of many other initiatory orders. Ritual nudity is also often a requirement, particularly in the various branches of Wicca. And it is a matter of record that many people who report near-death experiences (NDEs) claim to have met spirit guides or ancestors, and also claim enhanced awareness as a result, and no longer fear death. Perhaps they have undergone their own Shamanic initiations. NDEs are dismissed as “hallucinations” resulting from the brain being starved of oxygen, by many who call themselves skeptics, but they would seem to be missing the point. The near-death experience, and the Shamanic initiation, cannot be described in mundane terms – the language to describe it simply doesn’t exist – and certainly no-one who hasn’t had the experience is qualified to talk about it – and definitely isn’t qualified to tell someone who has experienced it that that it’s all their imagination.

This interpretation would seem to present the usurper-god Iaoue in a rather more positive light. Rather than an angry tyrant, he is the Initiator, along with the Serpent; the Garden of Eden story is a heavily garbled account of a shamanic initiation. And the rest of the Book of Genesis, and in fact the whole of the rest of the Bible, not to mention three thousand years of Middle Eastern and European history, is the result of a profound misunderstanding of this ancient account. Iaoue, or Yahweh, is not the mean-spirited, petty-minded, perpetually angry “jealous God” that his followers, of all three of the principal monotheistic faiths, have made of him.

If he exists at all, by now he has undoubtedly been driven insane by the sorry chronicle of atrocities and genocides that have been committed in his name. Was Man made in the image of God, or was it the other way around?

It's only an idea, after all; but what if it's something close to, or at least heading towards, the truth.......?

Blessed Be everyone,



 on: March 02, 2017, 07:06:44 PM 
Started by lady stardust - Last post by Draconis Rex
Welcome to TCC Lady, Although we are quiet at the moment, please feel free to browse our threads; there is much to be shared here and please post freely, Enjoy your time with us.

 on: March 02, 2017, 01:37:38 PM 
Started by lady stardust - Last post by Canis
Welcome to TCC Lady Stardust.

 on: March 02, 2017, 08:21:11 AM 
Started by lady stardust - Last post by Alchymist
Greetings and welcome to our Forum Lady Stardust. There's a huge amount of good information here, and many fellow Witches and Wiccans who will give you a warm welcome,

Blessed Be,


 on: March 01, 2017, 08:51:39 PM 
Started by lady stardust - Last post by lady stardust
hello im a new member here and hope that i can find some new friends here .
i am 43 ( turning 44 next month on the 1st) and i am a solitary wiccan . i have been studying since 2000 and mostly about animal magical and animal healing

 on: January 27, 2017, 11:40:11 PM 
Started by Bishop - Last post by marisol
Bishop I am sorry that you had such an experience, but you were smart to recognize it for what it is. It is sad for Selena to have come to be more interested in money than teaching. I did talk to her once about 6 months after Circle Sanctuary was founded and she aspired it to be something wonderful for all pagans. I was doing no more than inquiring into the organization.

I hope they do more than solicit money, but I really don't know.

Blessings on your journey, you will find many pagans will share happily with you.


 on: January 27, 2017, 11:01:52 PM 
Started by Ayedeas - Last post by marisol
Welcome Ayedeas. I like your chosen name.

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