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 21 
 on: May 03, 2015, 07:33:27 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by marisol
It can be really hard for solitary's at times due to the fact that lines do blur. And rituals or spells are not necessarily performed or planned the same as others in a group setting might do.

 22 
 on: May 03, 2015, 06:24:13 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Ashe Isadora
My training tells me that High Magic is the process by which we commune with the divine.  Transubstantiation would be a perfect example of this as well as some very lengthy and complicated rituals in Ceremonial Magic. Low Magic would include spells that are designed to cause change in the mundane world. Both would involve change in accordance with will. Length of time and complexity of the magical process is less important than the goal of the magic in determining whether it's "High" or "Low".

I agree that as you get deeper into the Craft the lines can blur, especially for those in mystery traditions.

Thoughts?

 23 
 on: May 03, 2015, 02:06:10 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Alchymist
Hi Marisol. That's fascinating information, thank you. Herbalism is an area I don't know too much about. Though I think the blood of a spotted gecko would be about as difficult to source as a baboon's blood, neither creature being indigenous to Scotland!

And, of course, even a simple one-hour ritual is going to involve a great deal of prior preparation; think of checking your almanac for a suitable phase of the Moon, crafting and consecrating an athame, buying or extracting oils, gathering herbs, acquiring all the bits and pieces for an altar - all of which, if it's to be done right, takes time, energy and concentration. I'm with Epona and Marisol here, I think; there's little real, practical distinction between the processes of High and Low Magic; it's the intent that matters, and even the intent can be blurry at times.

Blessed Be everyone,

Alchymist.   

 24 
 on: May 03, 2015, 01:23:57 PM 
Started by Peridot - Last post by C_A
FWIW...

Her "nom de plume" carries several translative errors.  ("Song of the Dragon"?  Melody of the Dragon"?  "Fart of the Dragon"? ).  Leading me to believe her to be an "auteur".  I WILL research this and get back to you, but, while most of the time, there is good information to be had, (a blind hog and acorns or a broken clock analogy here), there is also a lot of...well...LESS THAN good info.

 25 
 on: May 03, 2015, 12:20:07 PM 
Started by Peridot - Last post by marisol
I have been reading "Traditional Witchcraft for Fields and Hedgerows" by Melusine Draco. You might be interested in it. It
is a free e-book on amazon.

 26 
 on: May 03, 2015, 12:11:22 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by marisol
Many of the ingredients Shakespeare used  were just an herbal code that some still use today. Many witches still make herbal codes.
In the past herbal codes were used to keep the ingredients in a spell kept secret. Such as eye of newt is mustard seed, toe of frog
was bulbous Buttercup leaves, blood of baboon was blood of a spotted gecko. Slips of yew may have simply been yew, which would have been easily found. These names were old English. The rest of those ingredients might take a bit to gather.

It would seem Shakespeare had some knowledge or had done some experimentation. It would seem to be a ritual that would take some time to complete. It does border in the dark gray to black, I agree with you on that.

Thank-you for the interesting post Alchy.

 27 
 on: May 03, 2015, 04:40:16 AM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Valerie
If you don't mind I'll just sit on the grass with the warm sun on my back and a gentle breeze on my face and take all this in x

 28 
 on: May 03, 2015, 12:06:21 AM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Alchymist
og, the type of magic you're referring to seems to be the kind described both in many ancient grimoires designed to enlist the (usually unwilling) aid of various spirits and demons for both divination and for more mundane purposes, and in some of the surviving notebooks of country witches and "cunning men" - often in the preparation of love philtres, poisons and suchlike magical potions; as such, they seem to partake of both High and Low Magic.

A ritual of this type is described in some detail in Act 4, Scene I of "Macbeth", a play usually attributed to a certain W. Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon. Collecting the ingredients of this hellish brew would certainly have taken much time and effort and astrological knowledge .... "Eye of newt, and toe of frog" .... "slips of yew, sliver'd in th' Moon's eclipse" .... "grease that's sweaten from a murd'rer's gibbet" .... "a baboon's blood" (not something that could easily be obtained in 16th century Scotland). Many of these details are perhaps there only to give the audience a little shudder of horror, but others, especially the "slips of yew" seem to indicate that Shakespeare (or whoever actually wrote the works usually attributed to him) knew whereof he spoke. This ritual's purpose was, of course, to give Macbeth  a vision of his future, in terms of a typically oracular prophecy - resulting in war, and, ultimately, the suicide of Lady Macbeth and the death and beheading of Macbeth himself. The prophecy came true, but, as often happens, not in the way expected.

High Magic? Well, perhaps. Scarcely "White" though, I would say. Certainly a very, very dark grey, shading into black ....

"Stars, hide your fires. Let not light see my dark and deep desires." (Act 1, Scene IV)

Blessed Be everyone,

Alchymist.   

 29 
 on: May 02, 2015, 07:20:56 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Alchymist
Let's see where this thought takes us:

In "Magick in Theory and Practice", first published in 1929, Good Ol' Uncle Aleister Crowley defined Magick (he preferred the older spelling to distinguish his work from mere stage magic, or conjuring) as "The Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with the Will."

Virtually every other writer ever since, from Dion Fortune and W.E.Butler onwards, has inserted the words "in consciousness" after "Change" in the above definition; thereby, it seems to me, somewhat eviscerating Crowley's real meaning. Some authors have elaborated on this by asserting that the purpose of Magic(k), or occultism (they often seem to use the two terms interchangeably) is "union with God." This has had the effect of splitting the practitioners of Magic into two rival camps; those who maintain that the practise of Magic is concerned with the spiritual development of human consciousness only, with the ultimate aim of union with the deity, and those who take Crowley's original definition literally and are trying to cause actual, measurable change in the physical world - which might mean anything from attracting money or sexual partners, to (as Gerald Gardner claimed that the Witches of his New Forest coven had done) preventing an invasion. This approach certainly involves change in consciousness, but only as a preliminary to the real purpose.

These rival approaches are often classified as "Theurgy" and "Thaumaturgy", respectively. Donald Kraig, in "Modern Magick", has suggested that these rival approaches can be called White Magick and Black Magick respectively, with a sort of intermediate category concerned mostly with healing, which Kraig calls Grey Magick.

Could we, then, say that High Magic(k) is equivalent to Theurgy or White Magick, and Low Magic(k) to Thaumaturgy or Black Magick?

Actually this division is almost certainly an over-simplification, since there is probably no real dividing line and the one shades imperceptibly into the other; but it might possibly prove useful as a starting point. We can then argue interminably, and perhaps to no useful purpose, about where on the spectrum any particular magical ritual working might fit, if that sort of thing interests us.

Personally, "union with God" doesn't hold much attraction for me, so most of what I do probably rates as "Low", or at best "grey" Magic. I think I pretty much agree with Celtic Epona here:.

  The way i see it is:  To connect to the divine makes changes in the mundane world (namely us and how we respond to it).  To use magic to make changes in the mundane world brings us to a greater understanding/connection of/to the divine.  It is kind of like asking where a circle begins and ends. 
 


Union with Goddess, now ...... but that's a whole other story .......

Blessed Be everyone, High, Low and in between,

Alchymist

 30 
 on: May 02, 2015, 06:47:30 PM 
Started by Draconis Rex - Last post by Ashe Isadora
Okay, og.  My arse is entirely in place, but I have a different opinion (who, ME?) on the difference between High and Low Magic.  It's the goal, not the time or complexity, that determines which type of magic it is, though the lines can blur.

You up for this? Because I feel a good debate coming on...

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