Wait, I just read the notes on the Old Laws, so that puts everything into perspective a little more.
The Old Laws are certainly an interesting read. I think it's interesting that this document exists, and while it certainly gives an interesting historical perspective, a couple of things made me wonder (besides the above post). For example:Quote
For the Gods love the Wica, as a man loveth a woman by mastering her.
...if the man is the 'master' how did they reconcile that with the High Priestess being the nominal head of the Coven? I realize that this document is intended to be from the older times and perhaps based on historically handed down information; it still made me go 'huh'.Blue:
This is one of the first things that comes up during a discussion of the Laws of Wicca. Women seem to key on it right away.
Really ! Huh ??
It's only my opinion but i think there's much more to this than meets the eye. Early trad Wicca had a formal system of teaching. You were duely initiated and spent the first year and a day at the first degree. After that time, enough was revealed that you could make an informed, free will, choice as to whether Wicca was right for you or not.
In the second and third degrees more was revealed to you.
Do you see how the learning / teaching was done in stages ?
One concept might have been introduced to you as an initiate. Once you gained mastery of that concept another truth might be revealed to you in the second degree which would cause you have to completely re-evaluate the situation.
There's this process of tearing down and building up .... constantly progressing from one level of understanding to the next.
It's interesting, because someone that understands this can address a mixed group of firsts, seconds, and thirds. The speaker's words are the same words mind you .... but how those words are interpeted is dependent upon the level of understanding of the recipient. A first might come away with one understanding .... a third degree it's polar opposite.
I wish there were a simpler way to describe how this works but ....
To me : When the Ardennes speak of a man having a mastery of a woman it means many different things. Wicca is a demanding path. It's not for weaklings or the feint of heart. This "mastery" thing puts a huge demand upon a man to be a real man. He is after all a Representative of the G-d. That's no place for pantywaists or fops.
To the ladies ... ever had a gent walk into the room that just turns your knees to jello ? Ever had the disappointment of later finding out that that he was just a poser and a player ?
It's only my opinion but a true Representative of the G-d is the real deal. He's a man of strength, power, compassion, understanding, honor, love, dignity, and honesty.
He's the kind of man that almost any representative of the G-ddess could love, honor and respect of her own free will. He is worthy ....
In this sense he truly does have mastery of a woman doesn't he ?Carysta wrote:
153. It has been found that practicing the art doth cause a fondness between aspirant and tutor, and it is the cause of better results if this be so.
154. And if for any reason this be undesirable, it can easily be avoided by both persons from the outset firmly resolving in their minds to be as brother and sister or parent and child.
155. And it is for this reason that a man may be taught only by a woman and a woman by a man, and women and women should not attempt these practices together. So be it ordainedBlue:
I think that this refers to one's training. It's done cross gender partly because it makes the learning process go smoother. When you have two of the same gender egos get in the way but of you have a teacher and a student of opposite gender there's a useful sexual tension which exists to some degree or another.
Some degree of attraction between student and teacher is normal. I think what the old laws are saying is that both parties have to decide, and be very clear from the outset, whether this to be a sexual or nonsexual relationship so that no harm comes later on. Carysta wrote:
...reference to homosexuality? What is the (modern) Wiccan perspective on relationships between people of the same gender? Blue:
Well ... the Ardains are only advise ....
I think you have to bear in mind though that Wicca is a fertility religion and celebrates the union of the G-ddess and the G-d in it's ritual.
Maybe, on another level , does a guy that goes both ways really turn you on ? Most women don't have a problem with gay men being gay but the thought of their
man ever being with another man puts them off. This isn't true of all women, some find it to be a turn on, but most have some kind of problem with it on a gut level. As always .... only my opinion and not necessarily well informed. I haven't done the Wiccan degree thing.