Nuked
Welcome, Guest
October 23, 2014, 01:42:18 AM
News: Visit our Store for Pagan Books, Wiccan Jewelry and Magical Supplies! http://wicca.com/stores/entrance.html
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: Hell the Devils Domain  (Read 3136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Doom Monkey

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2014, 05:30:11 PM »

I like your thought in Heaven and Hell Alchymist.

I think too many religions use Hell as a means to scare. "Follow our specific brand of religion, or you will face eternal torment!"
I once heard a born-again Christian explain that you would only go to Heaven if you were baptised in a specific way, it had nothing to do with your deeds. In my mind, this is awful! That could mean that a mass-murderer who converts goes to Heaven, while a selfless volunteer goes to Hell because she followed the wrong branch of Christianity.
Coould not agree more.
Like God is some Egotistical Tyrant.
No my idea of the divine......

That's because he's a female.
Logged
"Tis a human trait to hate one you have wronged" - Seneca
I am responsible for what I write and say. I am not responsible for what you read or understand.

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4130
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2014, 11:38:45 AM »

To me, the adoption of a religion is an expression of a wish to stop thinking and just accept something.  There is nothing accomplished by any religion that can't be done alone.  Many somehow feel a validation by joining a group of people who seem the think alike, to the point of being indoctrinated and brainwashed. 

This is not a statement of spiritual paths, but of religion only, which I see as a true evil.  In saying that, I try not to be openly critical of anyone's path, but prefer to attend to mine, which is really the only one that is relevant to me, as a human being and individual entity.

I was visited by some Sunday proselytizers who clearly wanted to engage me at an intellectual level.  They asked me, "What do you think is the single greatest cause of strife and war in the world?"

When I replied, "Monotheism, since it's been the driving force of conflict since time began...".

I find it rather ironic that both Islam and Orthodox Christianity, theoretically Abrahamic religions, were both spread by conquest and violence, much like their Pagan predecessors.  While the Ancient Hebrew writings speak of much violence and warfare, it was not for religious conversion, but to gain a homeland promised to them by their deity.  Jews are also non-proselytic. You must ask to become a Jew, and ask more than once.  Nobody is ever invited, or recruited.

Islam and Orthodox Christianity are also both religions; Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.
Logged
"Every thug deserves a slug..."
~Anonymous

Doom Monkey

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2014, 11:55:06 AM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm
Logged
"Tis a human trait to hate one you have wronged" - Seneca
I am responsible for what I write and say. I am not responsible for what you read or understand.

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4130
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2014, 12:11:49 PM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Exactly; one family, one tribe, an extension of the original Hebrew Tribes, by blood, or by adoption.  As such, I still consider them an ethnicity.  It is possible to be a secular Jew; an Orthodox Jew is still a Jew; a Reform Jew is still a Jew.  Becoming a Jew is difficult, and involves as much cultural and ethnic education as religious teaching.  You must study the language, the history, and the mores of the culture.

Most Jews believe that any positive path will lead to the world to come.  It's more about philosophy than religion.  Jews are tied together by the covenant of Moses.  You can't just decide to be a Jew(as many Messianic practitioners appear to do).

to be a Jew, you must ask, be accepted, an then train for the day you are brought into the family/tribe.  This seems to lean more towards ethnicity to me, but that's just me.  My Jewish wife agrees, but that's just her.  If it was easy, there would be no Talmud... nobody enjoys a good argument than a Jew... LOL.
Logged
"Every thug deserves a slug..."
~Anonymous

Doom Monkey

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2014, 12:15:46 PM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Exactly; one family, one tribe, an extension of the original Hebrew Tribes, by blood, or by adoption.  As such, I still consider them an ethnicity.  It is possible to be a secular Jew; an Orthodox Jew is still a Jew; a Reform Jew is still a Jew.  Becoming a Jew is difficult, and involves as much cultural and ethnic education as religious teaching.  You must study the language, the history, and the mores of the culture.

Most Jews believe that any positive path will lead to the world to come.  It's more about philosophy than religion.  Jews are tied together by the covenant of Moses.  You can't just decide to be a Jew(as many Messianic practitioners appear to do).

to be a Jew, you must ask, be accepted, an then train for the day you are brought into the family/tribe.  This seems to lean more towards ethnicity to me, but that's just me.  My Jewish wife agrees, but that's just her.  If it was easy, there would be no Talmud... nobody enjoys a good argument than a Jew... LOL.

I won't argue.  I'm too lazy to do the translations.  You win.
Logged
"Tis a human trait to hate one you have wronged" - Seneca
I am responsible for what I write and say. I am not responsible for what you read or understand.

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4130
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2014, 12:45:44 PM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Exactly; one family, one tribe, an extension of the original Hebrew Tribes, by blood, or by adoption.  As such, I still consider them an ethnicity.  It is possible to be a secular Jew; an Orthodox Jew is still a Jew; a Reform Jew is still a Jew.  Becoming a Jew is difficult, and involves as much cultural and ethnic education as religious teaching.  You must study the language, the history, and the mores of the culture.

Most Jews believe that any positive path will lead to the world to come.  It's more about philosophy than religion.  Jews are tied together by the covenant of Moses.  You can't just decide to be a Jew(as many Messianic practitioners appear to do).

to be a Jew, you must ask, be accepted, an then train for the day you are brought into the family/tribe.  This seems to lean more towards ethnicity to me, but that's just me.  My Jewish wife agrees, but that's just her.  If it was easy, there would be no Talmud... nobody enjoys a good argument than a Jew... LOL.

I won't argue.  I'm too lazy to do the translations.  You win.

Sorry... not trying to be a know-it-all, merely stating my perspective.  I'd love to hear more of your thoughts, whether you agree or disagree.  Discussions aren't about winning and losing, but finding more truth, n'est pas?
Logged
"Every thug deserves a slug..."
~Anonymous

Doom Monkey

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2014, 12:49:13 PM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Exactly; one family, one tribe, an extension of the original Hebrew Tribes, by blood, or by adoption.  As such, I still consider them an ethnicity.  It is possible to be a secular Jew; an Orthodox Jew is still a Jew; a Reform Jew is still a Jew.  Becoming a Jew is difficult, and involves as much cultural and ethnic education as religious teaching.  You must study the language, the history, and the mores of the culture.

Most Jews believe that any positive path will lead to the world to come.  It's more about philosophy than religion.  Jews are tied together by the covenant of Moses.  You can't just decide to be a Jew(as many Messianic practitioners appear to do).

to be a Jew, you must ask, be accepted, an then train for the day you are brought into the family/tribe.  This seems to lean more towards ethnicity to me, but that's just me.  My Jewish wife agrees, but that's just her.  If it was easy, there would be no Talmud... nobody enjoys a good argument than a Jew... LOL.

I won't argue.  I'm too lazy to do the translations.  You win.

Sorry... not trying to be a know-it-all, merely stating my perspective.  I'd love to hear more of your thoughts, whether you agree or disagree.  Discussions aren't about winning and losing, but finding more truth, n'est pas?

And it still comes down to my being too lazy to do the Hebrew translations LOL 

Then there is the always interesting Race vs Ethnicity vs Religion vs geographical ancestrial locations.

 ;D
Logged
"Tis a human trait to hate one you have wronged" - Seneca
I am responsible for what I write and say. I am not responsible for what you read or understand.

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4130
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2014, 12:52:31 PM »

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

Actually......

That is not correct.  A few secular entities may consider that to be true, but the Jewish people do not.

Judaism is a religion.  The Jews consider their ethnicity to be of the place they are from.  Isreal, Germany, Poland and so forth all one part of a Nation or Family.

Fascinating info here.....  Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Exactly; one family, one tribe, an extension of the original Hebrew Tribes, by blood, or by adoption.  As such, I still consider them an ethnicity.  It is possible to be a secular Jew; an Orthodox Jew is still a Jew; a Reform Jew is still a Jew.  Becoming a Jew is difficult, and involves as much cultural and ethnic education as religious teaching.  You must study the language, the history, and the mores of the culture.

Most Jews believe that any positive path will lead to the world to come.  It's more about philosophy than religion.  Jews are tied together by the covenant of Moses.  You can't just decide to be a Jew(as many Messianic practitioners appear to do).

to be a Jew, you must ask, be accepted, an then train for the day you are brought into the family/tribe.  This seems to lean more towards ethnicity to me, but that's just me.  My Jewish wife agrees, but that's just her.  If it was easy, there would be no Talmud... nobody enjoys a good argument than a Jew... LOL.

I won't argue.  I'm too lazy to do the translations.  You win.

Sorry... not trying to be a know-it-all, merely stating my perspective.  I'd love to hear more of your thoughts, whether you agree or disagree.  Discussions aren't about winning and losing, but finding more truth, n'est pas?

And it still comes down to my being too lazy to do the Hebrew translations LOL 

Then there is the always interesting Race vs Ethnicity vs Religion vs geographical ancestrial locations.

 ;D

Absolutely.  I'm not sure there's an absolutely solid point of agreement for anybody... LOL
Logged
"Every thug deserves a slug..."
~Anonymous

C_A

  • FIDEI DEFENSOR
  • Council Elder
  • Redwood
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5781
  • JERSEY TRUE
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2014, 03:29:47 AM »

To me, the adoption of a religion is an expression of a wish to stop thinking and just accept something.  There is nothing accomplished by any religion that can't be done alone.  Many somehow feel a validation by joining a group of people who seem the think alike, to the point of being indoctrinated and brainwashed. 

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

I'm not sure that I fully concur.  When I exercise my religion, being in a coven serves me more as an aid to the work than a validation stamp.  Sure, I can put my 110 volts into the effort, but...If I run it through the transformer of a coven, it comes out at 1440!

My Rabbis, (two that I am in touch with very regularly), as well as others I have spoken to here and there say that "Judaism" is a religion but "being a Jew", well, that's Anthropology!
Logged
“I’ve come to view Jesus much the way I view Elvis. I love the guy but the fan clubs really freak me out”  ~ John  Fugelsang.
You know that you've created your G-d in your own image and likeness when he hates all the same people as you do.

C_A

  • FIDEI DEFENSOR
  • Council Elder
  • Redwood
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5781
  • JERSEY TRUE
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2014, 03:35:41 AM »

I had a heretical thought a few months ago.

Hmm.  Where IS that Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?
Logged
“I’ve come to view Jesus much the way I view Elvis. I love the guy but the fan clubs really freak me out”  ~ John  Fugelsang.
You know that you've created your G-d in your own image and likeness when he hates all the same people as you do.

Bardon Keene

  • Member
  • Fir
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Solitary trees, if they grow at all, grow strong.
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2014, 08:56:04 AM »

In my opinion --in relation to the original post-- is that, there are three non-pagan religions in the world. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. The dictionary definition of pagan is any religion other than the these three. That leaves over 4000 other religions to cover, not to mention there are other bigger religions than Wicca, like Hinduism, Jade, and other old religions. That's a lot to cover in a half hour, or even two hours.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;) :) :) :) :o :o :( :( >:( >:( :) :) ;) ;) :D :D ;D ;D
Logged
Seething deep down inside my inner powers they do hide. This secret in you I do confide. As we may now live side by side. So keep my secret, I'll keep yours, We will guard the The land, of Paradise shores



“Sometimes I think that wisdoms slip from my mind like drool from the lips of an idiot... Bu

Alchymist

  • Moderator
  • Cypress
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2014, 07:42:51 PM »

In my opinion --in relation to the original post-- is that, there are three non-pagan religions in the world. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. The dictionary definition of pagan is any religion other than the these three. That leaves over 4000 other religions to cover, not to mention there are other bigger religions than Wicca, like Hinduism, Jade, and other old religions.

Yes, well, there's dictionary definitions, then there's real life.

I suspect a great many Hindus and Buddhists would deeply resent being lumped in with Pagans - which from its original Latin derivation, simply means country-dweller. Not to mention that many Christian and Muslim sects consider everyone except themselves to be Hellbound Pagans. Many Protestant Christians think of Catholics as Pagan idol-worshippers bound irretrievably for Hell because they pray to images of the Virgin Mary.

Then there's the Mormons, who accept the Bible as true but have a sort of Third Testament, the Book of Mormon. I don't think they'd take kindly to being thought of as Pagan. But then, of course, Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones of the People's Temple, and Marshall Applewhite of Heaven's Gate all considered themselves to be Christians. And then there's the Gnostics, who maintain that they are the only real Christians, and all others are either deluded or impostors.....

Real life, as usual, refuses to be unceremoniously stuffed into neat little boxes. Trying to determine who "is" "really" Pagan, and who isn't, may well be a pointless exercise. Perhaps it's best to restrict the use of the word to those of us who accept the label. Let's just call everyone whatever they want to be called. 

By the way Bardon, I'm assuming by Jade you mean Jainism? Just want to be sure.....

Alchymist.
Logged
"Truly I say to you, he who seeks, shall find. And sometimes, he shall wish he hadn't."

Nieske

  • Member
  • Orange
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 178
  • Mother of Dragons
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2014, 01:05:22 AM »

Real life, as usual, refuses to be unceremoniously stuffed into neat little boxes. Trying to determine who "is" "really" Pagan, and who isn't, may well be a pointless exercise. Perhaps it's best to restrict the use of the word to those of us who accept the label. Let's just call everyone whatever they want to be called. 

Sounds good to me.
Logged
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4130
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2014, 06:47:24 PM »

To me, the adoption of a religion is an expression of a wish to stop thinking and just accept something.  There is nothing accomplished by any religion that can't be done alone.  Many somehow feel a validation by joining a group of people who seem the think alike, to the point of being indoctrinated and brainwashed. 

Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion.

I'm not sure that I fully concur.  When I exercise my religion, being in a coven serves me more as an aid to the work than a validation stamp.  Sure, I can put my 110 volts into the effort, but...If I run it through the transformer of a coven, it comes out at 1440!

My Rabbis, (two that I am in touch with very regularly), as well as others I have spoken to here and there say that "Judaism" is a religion but "being a Jew", well, that's Anthropology!

I see your point, but consider... which is the religion, Hasidic, Orthodox, Reform, Messianic?  It is one religion? two? three?  More?  You also won't be accepted to practice Judaism unless you become a Jew, which isn't about religion at all... you can't just decide to be a Jew and practice Judaism.  Confusing to say the least... we could both be right and both be wrong...
Logged
"Every thug deserves a slug..."
~Anonymous

Bardon Keene

  • Member
  • Fir
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Solitary trees, if they grow at all, grow strong.
Re: Hell the Devils Domain
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2014, 08:57:29 PM »



By the way Bardon, I'm assuming by Jade you mean Jainism? Just want to be sure.....

Alchymist.

Yes I did Alchymist

Sorry for the WAY WAY late response
Logged
Seething deep down inside my inner powers they do hide. This secret in you I do confide. As we may now live side by side. So keep my secret, I'll keep yours, We will guard the The land, of Paradise shores



“Sometimes I think that wisdoms slip from my mind like drool from the lips of an idiot... Bu
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up