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[Serpentium]

Depends on what drug you'd been taking. Obviously, not if you'd been drinking. That would be madness. But it's legal to drink, just not to drink and drive. That's common sense. So if other drugs were legal, it would still be common sense not to drive whilst under the influence of something that would impair your ability to do so. And you can't legislate for common sense.

[blue]

 It's a toughie though because regardless of the law the addictions creep into the job.

 When i'm behind the wheel on those long shifts i'm using caffeine and nicotine to help keep mentally alert. For a time last winter the doctor had me on prednisone for a medical condition and one of the side effects was that it really amped me up.

 It's difficult ... you pull 17 hrs behind the wheel, break for 4 hrs, and then go back for another 12 hours. Towards the end of an 80+ hour work week you get really strung out. The prednisone was making me aggressive anyway and there came a point where i kinda lost it for a little while. I started beating the crap out of my truck in hopes that it would break down. That way i could go home and get some sleep.

 Another case in point ... i was just talking with a friend of mine that i ran into at the store a few minutes ago. For as long as i've known him he's always been what we call in these parts ... a drinking man. He manages it pretty well. He's a good father, provides well for his family, and is a good boss to his workers.If somebody needs his services i always recommend him hands down.

 That man has an iron will but the disease is creeping up on him. He always drank after work. He wouldn't drink at home in front of his kids ... instead he got into his truck and drove around the neighborhood. He'd knock off a six pack and be home in time for dinner.

 Lately though ... i see him coming out of the store at lunch time with a pint. While his crew is eating he's having a brew. He's getting awfully thin lately.

 So here's a case in point where a guy with an addiction really isn't out of control. As near as i can tell he isn't causing any serious problems but he is drinking & driving and he is drinking on the job where he's using power equipment.

 If we deregulate the controlled substances they will start to filter into the critical occupations. Just like they did back in the 70's some of the the independents driving the 18 wheelers will be using amphetamines to keep them going on a long haul.

 I guess the way i see this is that there's the principle of getting the government out of everyone's hair but the issue is hardly black and white. There are a thousand shades of grey that should be considered before pulling the lid off. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't reconsider our drug laws but maybe we should try to take an objective look at why they were created in the first place.

[Serpentium]

It's a toughie though because regardless of the law the addictions creep into the job.


If we deregulate the controlled substances they will start to filter into the critical occupations. Just like they did back in the 70's some of the the independents driving the 18 wheelers will be using amphetamines to keep them going on a long haul.

 I guess the way i see this is that there's the principle of getting the government out of everyone's hair but the issue is hardly black and white. There are a thousand shades of grey that should be considered before pulling the lid off. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't reconsider our drug laws but maybe we should try to take an objective look at why they were created in the first place.

But these addictions have been filtering into the workplace for years anyway. Do you think that Truck drivers stopped using speed when prescribing policies changed? Why use it anyway? Because that was it's primary purpose, keeping people awake and alert. First, Wartime Flight Crews, then when the Nazis perfected quick & simple Methylamphetamine manufacture, it was given to all troops.
It works. Basically, the boom years of the 50's 60's & 70's were fuelled by amphetamines.

We've seen the same thing recently in SE Asia, with the economic boom in Thailand, Vietnam, and the Phillipines driven by illicit Yaba pills,  (Basically, smokable meth) to the extent that they are even used as currency. Production of up to 12 million pills a month takes place in Laos and Burma, mainly by the same Snakehead gangs who used to produce Heroin for the C.I.A in the "Golden Triangle". Once Heroin production got moved to Afghanistan, SE Asia could get on with developing a sustainable 'white' economy. Once the conflict is over in Afghanistan, I see the same economic boom happening there, as the demand for Lithium grows and Afghanistan having the Worlds largest Lithium deposits.

But back to the morality issue. Our Governments are not concerned with morality. When it comes down to it, they are only concerned with economics. At the cost of morality. The thing is, it compromises our ability to act upon our own morals, and impacts on our taking responsibility for our own actions.

[blue]

But these addictions have been filtering into the workplace for years anyway. Do you think that Truck drivers stopped using speed when prescribing policies changed?

 No ... not when prescribing policies changed.

 It was when a strict zero tolerance policy was enacted. At least for commercial drivers, there was a federal overhaul of the entire industry sometime back in the early eighties if memory serves. I actually lost my licence because of the regulation changes and had to go up and re-test.

 You'll find certain critical occupations here where there is no illegal drug use tolerated. Commercial truck driving, law enforcement, oil rig worker are a few jobs that come to mind. They test randomly and you're very well apt to find yourself either suspended or fired if you test positive.

[Serpentium]

We don't have any random drug testing in the workplace here. It would be seen as an infringement of our human rights. Which, I suppose, it would.

[blue]

 There's an important caveat here though ... nobody is forcing you into a line of work that requires drug testing.

 I've got a close friend of over 30 yrs that works as a mechanic for an oil company. There's always been sort of a friendly competition with us so if one has a trade skill that the other one doesn't we try to acquire it.

 It's fifteen years gone by now but back then i was driving year round. I had a licence that he didn't so he was going to see of he could branch out a little in the company and spend some time running an 18 wheeler loaded with 20,000 gallons of petrol from the fuel depot to the company tank farm.

 We were talking about it and at the time he had a bit of a crack habit. I really didn't take it head on but suggested that what somebody does in their off time is really their own business -but- when you've got that commercial licence you're subject to random testing. He understood .... 

 All these years later he's still working for the same company as a mechanic but he never followed up on driving truck.

 It's just one of those situations where you can do one thing, you can do the other thing, but you can't do both. There's good enough reason for it ... there are some high risk jobs where your head has to be completely in the game because you could easily get yourself or someone else killed.

 I've seen what happens first hand when you're not at your best on a large construction site. Come noontime some of the guys would go out for lunch and hit the bar in town ... maybe even toke up off site.

 After lunch was not good ! You didn't want those guys working anywhere near you and especially not overhead. The quality of their workmanship was off and they were prone to making mistakes like accidentally dropping a hammer while they were working up on the roof.

 I quit that condominium project after about a month and a half. The working conditions were miserable and things weren't going very well. I heard that the whole thing went into bankruptcy a few months later.

 Sorry .... it's just an old fart telling his stories but i draw from personal experience more than anything else. I've been on both sides of the issue. Back in the day i was pro legalization but i've been away from it for awhile and look at it from a different perspective now.

 lol .... thread drift or what ?

[Snake-Man]

We don't have any random drug testing in the workplace here. It would be seen as an infringement of our human rights. Which, I suppose, it would.

We DO have random drug-testing in my workplace.  Largely because it's a factory setting, with lots of dangerous equipment, forklifts, etc. and if someone was on drugs while working there, there's a big chance they could endanger themselves or others.

[Serpentium]

We DO have random drug-testing in my workplace.  Largely because it's a factory setting, with lots of dangerous equipment, forklifts, etc. and if someone was on drugs while working there, there's a big chance they could endanger themselves or others.

We have Factory setting workplaces too, but the management trust the workers not to turn up off their heads on drugs. And generally, they don't.

[Black Hat Guy]

If one were mocked, and the mocking continued after those doing the mocking were told to stop, then yes, that would be considered provocation.

Well, it is nice to have confirmation of your incredibly thin-skinned nature, if nothing else.

[white weasel]

Well I think this tread started out about Pagan Moral code.  So here is my 2 cents. Back a long time ago I served in the armed forces. I lost all thoughts or feeling about people. Good, Bad they where all the same to me. They where only Targets. Something to be destroyed if I was told to.  But as the troops came home and the military started thinning down the ranks. I found myself in a Hospital in the mental ward to be honest.  The service sent me home with a Honerable discharge and a small disability.  It took a good many years fighting my demons, years where I could not relax my guard or I could lose my temper and hurt someone.  And even then there where a couple of times when others did get hurt. But only in self defense, otherwise I would have been locked away for good.  But now with the grace of God I have found my moral compass. and I use the Wicca code. As it harms none, do as you will. I take this to mean mentally, physically and for all living things. Being branded as someone with no concern for life either your own or others and having to fight back from such a dark place.  You find out that a strong moral compass sometimes is the only thing that keeps you from falling off the edge.

[marisol]

white weasel You were in a bad place and life had no value there. Many people go through self
destructive times in their lives. And make their way back. It is a long and painful task. I have been there myself, as have many here. It is a daily struggle to maintain sanity at times. It looks
as though you have done well for yourself. Often we find it helpful to help others in the same situation. And so help ourselves to maintain. The trick is never forget where you came from, do not become complacent. May the Goddess grant you courage and strength.