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Author Topic: native american path??  (Read 2926 times)

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dark magus

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 01:12:39 AM »

If your interested in learning about native American beliefs, you'll need to go to them and talk to them. Each tribe has a bit of a different twist. Little has ever been written down, mostly past by word of mouth and taught while growing up. I some how don't fully trust the books out there, written by whites.
You take the Sioux. That nation was devastated after the Little Big Horn. Two years after the battle, who ever was still alive was forced onto reservations, striped of language, way of dress, way of life, way of belief, and pride.

For the past twenty years or so, there has been a move to regain some of the lost heritage and pride. Elders are sharing what they remember. But so much has been lost to history. Actually, the Navajo are probably the best known for regaining or retaining their heritage and language.

I've been looking at my own family tree. I've always known I am Metis, but now can claim a tribe...Montagnais.
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sarahbethany57

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 09:27:40 PM »

I have really been wanting to study Native American paths but just didn't know where to start, so I will definitely check out some of these books.
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Doom Monkey

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 07:29:34 AM »

Having grown up spending summers and holidays on the rez I can tell you it will be difficult to near impossible to find books written by anyone who is truly one of the people.  There are websites and there are some books out there that touch on truth but many of those are made up of more speculation than actual fact.

If you truly want to learn something about a specific tribe, I would suggest you contact that particular tribe's main reservation and ask for information and when they will have classes or a powwow or a stomp.  In fact Powwows and stomps are a great way to learn and interact with the people and find out a lot of information.

Most tribes guard their heritage as closely as any hereditary coven.  You will not get a lot of information from anyone unless they accept you as one of their own.  It's nothing personal, they've just already lost so much to other's laws and beliefs that they guard what they retain as close as the air.

If you are able to prove a tribal heritage, I would research getting a CDIB (Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood) card.  That is the best pass into the ways of a tribe you can get.  Depending on the tribe there are different percentages that are allowed. 

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/howtoregister.htm

I mean to get a Cherokee card this day and age is near impossible, there are very few who have a strong enough bloodline.  Mine is only because my grandmother is on the Baker Roll.  You have to be careful thought, the UCN (United Cherokee Nation), while recognized by some states is not federally recognized, they pretty much take up the slack that the federal requirements leave behind.

You can also go to the tribe's individual webpage and many will allow registration that the tribe recognizes even if the federal government doesn't.

In any event, let me know if you need more information or locations of powwows or stomps. 
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Firesong

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2011, 12:53:57 PM »

Having grown up spending summers and holidays on the rez I can tell you it will be difficult to near impossible to find books written by anyone who is truly one of the people.  There are websites and there are some books out there that touch on truth but many of those are made up of more speculation than actual fact.

If you truly want to learn something about a specific tribe, I would suggest you contact that particular tribe's main reservation and ask for information and when they will have classes or a powwow or a stomp.  In fact Powwows and stomps are a great way to learn and interact with the people and find out a lot of information.

Most tribes guard their heritage as closely as any hereditary coven.  You will not get a lot of information from anyone unless they accept you as one of their own.  It's nothing personal, they've just already lost so much to other's laws and beliefs that they guard what they retain as close as the air.

If you are able to prove a tribal heritage, I would research getting a CDIB (Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood) card.  That is the best pass into the ways of a tribe you can get.  Depending on the tribe there are different percentages that are allowed. 

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/howtoregister.htm

I mean to get a Cherokee card this day and age is near impossible, there are very few who have a strong enough bloodline.  Mine is only because my grandmother is on the Baker Roll.  You have to be careful thought, the UCN (United Cherokee Nation), while recognized by some states is not federally recognized, they pretty much take up the slack that the federal requirements leave behind.

You can also go to the tribe's individual webpage and many will allow registration that the tribe recognizes even if the federal government doesn't.

In any event, let me know if you need more information or locations of powwows or stomps.

Excellent response... and the best answer.  There are some reasonably good books, but they are few and far between, and for a number of years, books about Native Americans were high up the list and selling like hot cakes, so a lot of people tried to take advantage of them...  If you want to learn about the People, talk to the People...
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MoonWaterSister

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 08:29:24 AM »

I am Native American, Blackfeet by birth.  There are some resources out there, such as http://www.sistersofembracement.org/Native.htm.   Most tribes though, as I've lived on several reservations, will not offer much information.  Firesong is correct.  It's not only that things have been stolen from Indians, but the Shamanic _Medicine man/ woman ways, are held extremely sacred, and these people still stand as "holy" people.  The reluctance to share, stems also from the misuse of power, and the corrupted states people get themselves into.  While Shamanic  practices are intended for healing and protection, for wisdom and growth, for peace and life, there are those who would also use this knowledge to hurt others.  Usually one cannot just jump up and say they are a medicine man or woman, it's handed down for the most part, or specifically chosen for one.  Often a person chosen, is sent to learn from someone outside of their own tribe, because an old saying comes home to roost, "a prophet is without honor among his/her own people."  Most true holy people, never need a title, nor do they have a need to announce themselves.  They are servants, and serve the people, trying to keep unity and bridging gaps for those in need.

I hope you prosper in your search, and achieve that which you want.
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MoonWaterSister

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 08:52:46 AM »

this sight here, has some more information on it, that may be of use.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nataspir.htm
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When all else fails, sit by water in the moonlight then dance naked under the stars!

Water is fluid, soft and yeilding, but water will wear away rock, it will over come what is rigid and hard, it cannot yield.  Another paradox of what is soft, is strong.

Firesong

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 10:21:58 AM »

I am Native American, Blackfeet by birth.  There are some resources out there, such as http://www.sistersofembracement.org/Native.htm.   Most tribes though, as I've lived on several reservations, will not offer much information.  Firesong is correct.  It's not only that things have been stolen from Indians, but the Shamanic _Medicine man/ woman ways, are held extremely sacred, and these people still stand as "holy" people.  The reluctance to share, stems also from the misuse of power, and the corrupted states people get themselves into.  While Shamanic  practices are intended for healing and protection, for wisdom and growth, for peace and life, there are those who would also use this knowledge to hurt others.  Usually one cannot just jump up and say they are a medicine man or woman, it's handed down for the most part, or specifically chosen for one.  Often a person chosen, is sent to learn from someone outside of their own tribe, because an old saying comes home to roost, "a prophet is without honor among his/her own people."  Most true holy people, never need a title, nor do they have a need to announce themselves.  They are servants, and serve the people, trying to keep unity and bridging gaps for those in need.

I hope you prosper in your search, and achieve that which you want.

Thanks for your excellent input... ;D ;D
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soulfire

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »

I am Native American, Blackfeet by birth.  There are some resources out there, such as http://www.sistersofembracement.org/Native.htm.   Most tribes though, as I've lived on several reservations, will not offer much information.  Firesong is correct.  It's not only that things have been stolen from Indians, but the Shamanic _Medicine man/ woman ways, are held extremely sacred, and these people still stand as "holy" people.  The reluctance to share, stems also from the misuse of power, and the corrupted states people get themselves into.  While Shamanic  practices are intended for healing and protection, for wisdom and growth, for peace and life, there are those who would also use this knowledge to hurt others.  Usually one cannot just jump up and say they are a medicine man or woman, it's handed down for the most part, or specifically chosen for one.  Often a person chosen, is sent to learn from someone outside of their own tribe, because an old saying comes home to roost, "a prophet is without honor among his/her own people."  Most true holy people, never need a title, nor do they have a need to announce themselves.  They are servants, and serve the people, trying to keep unity and bridging gaps for those in need.

I hope you prosper in your search, and achieve that which you want.

this is so true.  I found out by accident about my friend after I met him and was remarking to our mutual friend that 'there's something special about him'and she said he is the tribal holy man but he would never tell you that.    He is considered the holy man but the tribal members almost resent it in a way, while still showing him the respect of his station.  I mainly know him as a rascally old indian who blesses me when he sees me.
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MoonWaterSister

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 02:10:21 PM »

My experience, on the Reservation, Is very intertwined so to speak.  Being in foster care in many homes, and among many of the tribes, I find certain things that resound true.  There are many "superstitions" as many would put it, that lead to fear.  People now, fear each other.  There is strong jealousy.  And there is huge mistrust, even among its own people.  There is great fear of evil, and evil spirits, curses, hexes and the lot.  With good reason.  Before going anywhere, to learn anything, try to discern the person's spirit. 

Though many do not want to believe that things exist that they cannot see, well, of course they have that right.  But for many of us, who have seen into the supernatural world, just as there is good spirits, there is also evil.

I know many say, that things are neither black nor white, nor good or evil.  I've heard others say, without the darkness, there can be no light, and without evil, there can be no good.  I guess everything boils down to perception.

There are many who want to become "shamans" even on the reservations and outside of them.  Many that want this path, do not have correct motives.  They are not wanting it, because they are wanting to empower themselves, therefore empowering others.  They are not wanting it, for the benefit of others, but only what it can bring them.  And there are just some, who do recieve the training by right but are considered "wicked."

There is such a thing, called transferrance of spirits.  (Many witches know about this, in the various pagan, earth based religions, I believe wiccan's know this also.)  When a Shaman that has "turned bad" as it's simply put, and traffic in spirits, and take to the side, where their motive is to harm others, on the Reservation, we know that if they even touch someone, especially one in a weakened condition  already, or  like an infant - child, an elder who's health is failing, or someone physically sick, these people will just walk by and touch them, and put them at the brink of death.

Somebody then, will bring the person to a Medicine person/ Shaman/ Holy Person, whatever label you want on it, and then they go through the ceremonial rituals of cleansing the body, removing objects that are inserted in (through alchemy and certain forms of divination) or they exercise off the bad spirit.  The person gets well, and then it happens all over again.

Certain families with these type medicine people, will still keep going back to them, for the most part, because they are family...and who wants to believe this about your own? right?
Hopefully, before it goes to far, they get to a true medicine person, who treats not only the mind, but the body, and the spirit, and teaches the person to protect themselves, and how to be thankful to the ancestrial spirits, and others that are there for specific purposes such as bears.

There are many forms of Shamans, and many seem to teach the same thing, just in different ways.  Just discern, if you go in person to anyone who suggests they teach this kind of training because you want someone with balance, wisdom, correct motives, even if it's just for a personal level.

Loosely put, there's alot of nuts out there, and some are very cracked... ;D

There is times, it's just wise to protect yourself first before anyone else.  Difficult for a sick person, to attempt to minister healing to someone else who is sick.  What's the old saying, "physician heal thyself"!!! 

Dark Magus, may know some real good authors in regards to shamanism.  Maybe a few others on here as well.

Brightest of Blessings.
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When all else fails, sit by water in the moonlight then dance naked under the stars!

Water is fluid, soft and yeilding, but water will wear away rock, it will over come what is rigid and hard, it cannot yield.  Another paradox of what is soft, is strong.

Serpentium

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 10:02:58 AM »

 The defining aspect of Shamanism is that you cause changes in people's cognitive process, by subtly (Or not so subtly) manipulating their perception. Everything else is just window dressing, so long as it works. Shamans today are just as likely to be wearing white coats, as they are ceremonial headgear, or be waving twigs in the air. Manipulating people into seeing who they want them to see.
You also mention the importance of discernment. Some folks never seem to 'get' that one. I think you'll do fine.
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MoonWaterSister

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2011, 10:39:51 AM »

Hi Serp,

I like the "window dressing" comment.  I didn't think about it in that aspect before, but as I think about it, you're right.

I once met a Shaman from Portugal, which was a very interesting experience.  She was different in the way she helped people.  She would sit down, and go into a meditative type trance, and then begin to paint.  After the picture was done, then she proceeded to help the person before her.  It was very different. 

When you grow up more around "one group" of people, perhaps do to ignorance (meaning me - haha) well, I didn't realize there were many other ways, in the same "shoes" to help others. She didn't have rocks, or crystals, or feathers, or some of the other stuff I've seen used.
She had packets of different herbs, barks, berries, etc, water color paints, an flat easel, and paint brushes. 

I met yet another one, in Africa.  And that was even far different than anything I had ever witnessed.

But the bottom line is right in your statement,
*The defining aspect of Shamanism is that you cause changes in people's cognitive process, by subtly (Or not so subtly) manipulating their perception.*  I never heard it put like that before, but that really encompasses it quite simply.  Thank you
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When all else fails, sit by water in the moonlight then dance naked under the stars!

Water is fluid, soft and yeilding, but water will wear away rock, it will over come what is rigid and hard, it cannot yield.  Another paradox of what is soft, is strong.

soulfire

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2011, 04:46:35 PM »

Quote
The defining aspect of Shamanism is that you cause changes in people's cognitive process, by subtly (Or not so subtly) manipulating their perception. Everything else is just window dressing, so long as it works.

sort of like a witch, eh?  A lot of what I do involves counseling with others and working magic in their lives.  I do use spellwork on occasion but that usually is for creating change in my own life.  When I work with others it easily crosses over into 'shamanism'. But I just identify better with the other.
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cradith

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2012, 12:20:32 PM »

I am reading  Scottish Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland, it has given me an understanding on why I like to do my rituals outside.
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Serpentium

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2012, 03:49:10 PM »

sort of like a witch, eh?  A lot of what I do involves counseling with others and working magic in their lives.  I do use spellwork on occasion but that usually is for creating change in my own life.  When I work with others it easily crosses over into 'shamanism'. But I just identify better with the other.
I'd go as far as to say that every Religion there ever was, has at it's very root, A Shamanic style Trance state. The Christians have sects of Flagellents, who achieve a Gnosis through pain, Every Major Religion today uses fasting as a tool. Then you have the Ishmaeli Hashish eaters of Islam, and the Sufi Mystical orders too, whose whirling Dervishes use drumming, and dance to achieve their trance states.


The Native Americans had the pain based initiation of the Ghost dance, supposed to summon back Tribal ancestors. (Which I believe is still  illegal under Federal Law)


All these traditions within the major religions have survived all kinds of persecution from their own Orthodoxies, but they are still around, despite that. The reason for this is that Gnosticism, or "Direct personal Communion" with whichever Godform, removes the need for a Priesthood to intercede for you. The Catholic Church is particularly down on Gnostic cults. The Essenes were Gnostics, and they were the first target Heretics of the Church. The Cathars were ruthlessly put down too. As were the Templars, for their Heresy. Any normal Parishioner claiming to hear the voice of God was dragged off and burned for a Witch. Or if she was Noble, bundled off to a Convent.


Because there's only one Guy that can talk directly with God. (Currently, an ex-Nazi, with a Jewish name. Living in Italy)
 
So while Shamanism still survives, it is a flexible enough system to adapt to most current cultural paradigms. Modern Psychiatry uses various drug induced trance states, hypnosis, and archetypal forms from our collective unconscious to work with. How is that not Shamanism?


It can pretty much re-boot the Human mind to default settings in order to banish malignant behaviour patterns, and invoke new more benign ones. And Psychology long ago discovered that through the use of symbols, they could work directly with the subconscious mind, and cut out the filtering processes of the conscious mind.


The conscious mind works by recognising linguistic patterns. We verbalise our ideas in the conscious mind, with an internal dialogue. But the unconscious mind doesn't do "Words". It processes things through imagery and symbols. So while the conscious mind is busy with some intellectually demanding process, (Like chanting, or following a rhythm) symbol based commands can be slipped directly into a person's subconscious, to be triggered by the associated symbol at any later point.

Subliminal programming, they call it. Very popular with the boys at the Advertising department. And Corporations use this rich, and mythical Symbolism for their Corporate Logos. But that's getting into another subject entirely.   
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arrowolf

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Re: native american path??
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2012, 07:17:38 PM »

Just a thought on your dream. Wolves as far as i know are not loners. Where you see one there are sure to be more close by. A wolf resting by a tree could be that he/she has strayed from the pack and lost his/her way or is simply in search of. The eagle could be the sight to find what is lost or what is needed (direction to the path). The feather a subtle hint that the sight you need is there if you look for it. Just a thought.
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