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Author Topic: Concepts of Deity and Ascension  (Read 146 times)

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Nymree

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Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« on: September 02, 2016, 12:51:58 PM »

This is hypothetical, and based purely on the idea that gods are ascended beings/mortals. We're assuming here that human beings are capable of ascending to godhood, which is where the discussion could come in.

My thoughts are, if ascension to this higher state is possible, and that is what (at least some) gods are, why shouldn't we strive for godhood? I can understand that arrogance is destructive, but in consideration of the whole concept surely it would make sense to work towards and encourage aspirations for godhood, rather than shunning the idea that mortals can become gods?

Then, you also have the whole "mad with power", god-complex issue. And I suppose just trying could be enough to drive someone mad.
But I often see or hear of the idea of striving for godhood shunned and seen as arrogance, rather than as a legitimate spiritual aspiration. But, why? I'm more curious as to why this aspiration would be a bad thing, other than for the previously listed reasons.

I'm not looking to become a god(dess), of course. It's just more of a shower thought. And I'm sorry that this discussion does make a few leaps and assumptions, but working with those in mind; what makes aspirations to godhood necessarily bad?

Blessed Be,

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Ashe Isadora

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 02:27:18 PM »

Many people say "Thou art God/dess" before cakes and ale so to some this could be redundant. Especially if you perceive the deities as archetypes or projections of our own human qualities.

Speaking as a Pagan, what I find problematic is the notion that the gods are somehow on a higher spiiritual plane. To me, Paganism is a celebration of earth and the gods are extensions of this.  They're on another plane, but not necessarily a "higher" one, .

This is a great topic, but to me it reflects a more eastern or even Christian POV than my vision of Paganism can handle. 

YMMV


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Lazarus Long

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 05:48:52 AM »

Speaking as a Pagan, what I find problematic is the notion that the gods are somehow on a higher spiiritual plane. To me, Paganism is a celebration of earth and the gods are extensions of this.  They're on another plane, but not necessarily a "higher" one.

I have to agree with you Ashe on this one. Being taught the Christian beliefs all my life. I have always been told God/ess are in the highest kingdom. Kingdom? Who said they are in a kingdom at all? What makes them more powerful them me? I agree, I don't remember everything I have been taught throughout all the lives I have had, but as I live so do I remember what I have already learned before. I believe I was and am a God/ess who has come to this game board to learn more lessons and help others learn theirs too. Upon learning these lessons, (or not), I will go back to the spirit world changed. Whether it is for good or to add the lessons I didn't learn here. These lessons are to be added the next life I am about to live. This is yet to be known. Still, I believe I am already a God/ess. Waiting for my game to be over so I can move on.

I hope this makes sense to others. The book Re-Member by Steve Rother helped me to understand as well as it cleared up a ton of things I had been thinking at the time.

Thanks for the discussion. It has made me think hard about my beliefs. BB! MW
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 04:26:10 PM »

For my own part, I certainly have no desire to become a Godhead, and I imagine I speak for most of us all. However your point is about striving for that plain and I would certainly agree that we should all strive to be the best that we can be. For those who succeed to a greater degree, this may be perceived as a God complex, but only if the arrogance was to accompany that achievement.

The struggle to get there is what makes us better, not the achievement, so the struggle ever continues.

I can't say I agree with the concept of mortal becoming Deity, apart from the issues with omnipotence and omnipresence, I believe it could get pretty crowded and what would one become God/ess of anyway? most of the positions are filled.  ;)
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Canis

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 12:22:42 PM »

How about a God/ess of sandblasting?   ;D
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Alchymist

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 12:14:03 AM »

.
How about a God/ess of sandblasting?   ;D


I suspect that Brigid already has that covered, since she's the Goddess of Smithcraft; back in pre-Christian times when the Pagan gods and goddesses were first being recognised, or discovered, or invented or whatever, smithcraft was perhaps the highest level of technology available to the humans of that era. Nowadays of course, Brigid's responsibilities cover all aspects of metalworking and indeed perhaps technology generally.

But perhaps she delegates responsibility for other specialties within technology to lesser deities? Perhaps there's a God of sandblasting, a Goddess of non-destructive testing, a God of open-hearth steelmaking, a Goddess of solid-state electronics?

Then there's Eris, the Goddess of chaos, confusion and bureaucracy, with perhaps a sub-specialty of computer programming. Certainly some of the fundamental principles of computer sciences seem to partake strongly of chaos and confusion ..... think of "There is always one more bug," and "The most destructive bug is the one you don't find until the software is installed on all your computers - and then the only way to debug it is by ripping apart the whole system....."

Eris is closely related to Murphy, the God of Whatever Can Go Wrong, Will; and the shadowy, nameless Goddess of Even Things That Can't Possibly Go Wrong, Will Still Go Wrong - And in the Most Destructive (And Expensive) Way Possible.

Blessed Be, and may the Gods and Goddesses not give you too much grief.

Alchymist
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Canis

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2016, 05:33:59 AM »

.
How about a God/ess of sandblasting?   ;D


Eris is closely related to Murphy, the God of Whatever Can Go Wrong, Will; and the shadowy, nameless Goddess of Even Things That Can't Possibly Go Wrong, Will Still Go Wrong - And in the Most Destructive (And Expensive) Way Possible.

Blessed Be, and may the Gods and Goddesses not give you too much grief.

Alchymist


Too late! Murphy has already been giving me grief. The air compressor still hasn't arrived (two weeks late already) and they can't tell us where it is. The humidity has been high, making blasting in all that protective gear quite uncomfortable. And now, the compressor we've been renting decided to quit half way through the last piece we have for this job.
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marisol

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 10:59:38 PM »

The thought of mortals and ascension has to many Christian remnants for me. It just doesn't fit in my way of thinking. But it makes for some interesting discussion. I'm not sure I would be interested in the job. It would be my luck to be the goddess of toilet paper.
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 07:10:24 AM »

How about the God Yargh? The God of standing on bricks of Lego and electrical plugs in bare feet  ::)
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Canis

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2016, 01:42:54 PM »

You mean something like this genius?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsowLBretlk
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2016, 05:56:51 PM »

I've seen that one before; A completely new and as yet unexplored level of stupid that goes far beyond the realms of Darwinian moronism (so unbelievably brainless it needed a new word to be created for it).
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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

I WAS the 5th rider of the Apocalypse, before they became famous.

marisol

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Re: Concepts of Deity and Ascension
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 03:57:13 PM »

Stupid and very funny. Even I am smarter than that. ;D ;D
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