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Author Topic: An Odd Argument  (Read 1686 times)

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Draconis Rex

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2014, 09:33:02 AM »

Well that's just it, it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion any more, I imagine it once did in times where it mattered. Perhaps it started at the time of Oliver Cromwell, it's simply stuck as a traditional trend for many years without any thought being given to it at all. As I said, it's merely a tag similar to being tagged as black or white, Irish or Scottish and so on. These things are easily overlooked or forgotten about. I imagine it also stuck for a long time due to many children dying young of disease etc. and they wanted a particular religious orientation to carry out burial/last rites.
 
As an example, do you realise that it's only a number of years ago that a town just south of the border of Scotland, Berwick Upon Tweed, was at war with Russia? That came about because when war was declared, the monarch at that time stated that the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales and Berwick Upon Tweed are at war with Russia. When it was all over, there was a different monarch and that declaration was stated similarly but missing out the bit naming Berwick. So in official terms they were still at war.....
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Alchymist

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2014, 11:17:24 PM »

FW, your citation is quite funny.

.... so there was this English visitor in Northern Ireland, dropped into the local pub one evening and got talking with the regulars (I guess this happened out in the country somewhere, rather than in Belfast, where things might have become a little more ..... shall we say heated?). The conversation turned to matters of religion.

"So, then," someone asked the newcomer, "What are ye then? Are ye a Catholic or a Protestant?"

"Well, neither, actually," our hero replied. "I'm an atheist."

"All right then, but are ye a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

It seems to me that, if you can find the answer to that question, you have achieved total enlightenment, and have earned the right to step forever off the Wheel of Karma.

Or, to put everything into its true perspective; as any Irishman worth his Old Bushmills would say, when pressed for a definite answer to a question; "Well, it is and it isn't."

It is perhaps not generally known that the venerable sage Mullah Nasrudin, whom the Sufis insist on claiming as their own, was actually an Irishman from Donegal.
http://www.rodneyohebsion.com/mulla-nasrudin.htm

It was my good friend Patrick Declan O'Malley, the Seer of Burtonport, who told me this. He was drunk at the time, but he was very insistent, and who am I to call him a liar?

Alchymist.
 
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Draconis Rex

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2014, 04:03:00 AM »


"So, then," someone asked the newcomer, "What are ye then? Are ye a Catholic or a Protestant?"

"Well, neither, actually," our hero replied. "I'm an atheist."

"All right then, but are ye a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"


I wish I'd had this anecdote to hand sooner, it would have saved a lot of explanation earlier.....LoLoL  ::) ::) ;D ;D
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FW

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2014, 12:02:36 PM »

Thanks Alchymist. DR's odd argument is now less odd to me thanks to your anecdote.
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Draconis Rex

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2014, 12:32:07 PM »

               :-p :-p :-p  Gee, Thanks!  :-p :-p :-p
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Alchymist

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2014, 11:19:49 PM »

Happy to be of assistance.

Alchymist.
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Marni

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2014, 04:53:56 PM »



Been on a quest, you might say.

Do I offend? Well, it's hard to say anything without offending someone, be it only

Great to see you back...

IMO, a Christian isn't defined by membership in any religion or church, unless they so choose; the only difference between Protestant churches and the Catholic church is that one was created for control, and the other was created at the convenience of a mad king, to avail himself of the opportunity to divorce his current wife and snag another who was hotter and younger. 

In some ways Protestants are even less credible to me... they took a book that was already flawed and then proceeded to reinterpret it and distribute it according to their own agendas, to make it "clearer" to the faithful... 

I'll never understand:

if a god that is timeless, nameless, non-gendered, and all powerful, what use would it have for human religious politics, and what need would it have for designated people to get it's point across?

What need of Biblical canon if all is written within the heart of the seeker?  There are many ways to express it.  The Hindus and American Indians see is as a point of universal connection of all things to each other.  In Abrahamic belief systems it's about being created in the image of G-d, with one universal point of connection: the soul.  I believe the soul/spirit is both the image of G-d and a point of universal connection. But that's just me.

Sorry for the derail...
[/quote]



Have to take issue with your assertion that Henry VIII was mad. Ruthless, yes. Amoral, indeed. Selfish and spoilt, certainly. But there are no contemporary texts to cast doubt on his sanity. In fact, he laid the foundations for paths Elizabethan golden age. If you are really looking for mad English monarchs, take a look at Henry VI, or even George III.

 
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Alchymist

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2014, 03:14:17 AM »

Have to take issue with your assertion that Henry VIII was mad. Ruthless, yes. Amoral, indeed. Selfish and spoilt, certainly. But there are no contemporary texts to cast doubt on his sanity. In fact, he laid the foundations for paths Elizabethan golden age. If you are really looking for mad English monarchs, take a look at Henry VI, or even George III.

True enough. I should probably have put "mad" in quotes. Though the whole Tudor bloodline - and in fact probably most of the Royal Families of Europe at the time - had a tendency towards flamboyance at least, if not certifiable nuttiness. One notes, in many cases, subtle and not-so-subtle physical and mental characteristics of repeated inbreeding. From the mid-19th century onwards this tendency seems to have been recognised as deleterious and fresh DNA was brought in from the lesser aristocracy.

 Henry VIII simply had his enemies hung, drawn and quartered and his discarded wives beheaded - a messy business. Elizabeth I of England was probably the sanest of the lot, but even she could fly into spectacular rages at times, if anyone crossed her.

Alchymist. 
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Firesong

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2014, 05:37:06 PM »

Quote
Have to take issue with your assertion that Henry VIII was mad.

I don't know... I've been married 4 times...if I had to create my own religion to get a divorce, I'd be more than "mad", I'd be seriously pissed... :-p
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FW

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2014, 05:40:32 PM »

Quote
Have to take issue with your assertion that Henry VIII was mad.

I don't know... I've been married 4 times...if I had to create my own religion to get a divorce, I'd be more than "mad", I'd be seriously pissed... :-p

I was going to head another direction about him being pretty pissed at the two ex-wives he had executed, but you took a similar path.  Nicely done!
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Firesong

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2014, 06:09:11 PM »

 ;)
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Alchymist

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2014, 12:48:46 AM »

I'm not sure whether being slightly unhinged is a prerequisite for even wanting to be a king, or whether constantly having to look at the tops of people's heads as they grovel before you, permanently warps your psyche in slantendicular ways, giving you a sense of entitlement which you don't really deserve ..... not to mention underlings saying things like "Your merest whim is my command, Sire...." It does funny things to your mind, I would think - though probably no more so than being President or Prime Minister at the present time.

Once upon a time a man became king by being chosen by the High Priestess, a procedure which strikes me as eminently civilized. In more recent eras it became simply a matter of doing in all other potential candidates, "with extreme prejudice" as the saying goes, which essentially means that the strongest, most determined and most ruthless (or perhaps just the sneakiest) contender wins. Belonging to the right family (and the right religion) helped, of course. But then, having become king, you're continually glancing over your shoulder, wondering who among your courtiers is plotting to murder you .... if you're not crazy to begin with, you stand an excellent chance of going gradually bonkers in a very few years. Not many kings, emperors, czars, pharaohs or whatever, pre-19th century, died peacefully in their beds at an advanced age.

I wouldn't want the job, myself. Although as I think I might have mentioned before, I was May King for a year in our local Pagan community, having "won" the Great Wild Boar Hunt - actually, throwing wooden javelins at an image of a wild boar painted on a sheet of plywood. I didn't get to marry the High Priestess, though.....

Alchymist.
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Marni

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2014, 04:08:43 PM »

I'm not sure whether being slightly unhinged is a prerequisite for even wanting to be a king, or whether constantly having to look at the tops of people's heads as they grovel before you, permanently warps your psyche in slantendicular ways, giving you a sense of entitlement which you don't really deserve ..... not to mention underlings saying things like "Your merest whim is my command, Sire...." It does funny things to your mind, I would think - though probably no more so than being President or Prime Minister at the present time.

Once upon a time a man became king by being chosen by the High Priestess, a procedure which strikes me as eminently civilized. In more recent eras it became simply a matter of doing in all other potential candidates, "with extreme prejudice" as the saying goes, which essentially means that the strongest, most determined and most ruthless (or perhaps just the sneakiest) contender wins. Belonging to the right family (and the right religion) helped, of course. But then, having become king, you're continually glancing over your shoulder, wondering who among your courtiers is plotting to murder you .... if you're not crazy to begin with, you stand an excellent chance of going gradually bonkers in a very few years. Not many kings, emperors, czars, pharaohs or whatever, pre-19th century, died peacefully in their beds at an advanced age.

I wouldn't want the job, myself. Although as I think I might have mentioned before, I was May King for a year in our local Pagan community, having "won" the Great Wild Boar Hunt - actually, throwing wooden javelins at an image of a wild boar painted on a sheet of plywood. I didn't get to marry the High Priestess, though.....

Alchymist.


I quite agree. European monarchies are the product of a shrunken and inter-related gene pool. Lots of historical examples to support that. How else would you explain Prince Edward?




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Firesong

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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2014, 08:40:38 PM »

Quote
In more recent eras it became simply a matter of doing in all other potential candidates, "with extreme prejudice" as the saying goes, which essentially means that the strongest, most determined and most ruthless (or perhaps just the sneakiest) contender wins. Belonging to the right family (and the right religion) helped, of course.

Brilliantly said; in reference to the quote above, I couldn't help thinking how much this sounds like the last half century of US politics.   ??? :( ::) ;)

And I can say that I wouldn't want the job either, for all the reasons listed above, and one more... mainly because I'd suck at it. :-p
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Re: An Odd Argument
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2014, 11:59:37 AM »

I have been BEGGED to run.  So I DID.  AWAY. 

I actually believe that I WOULD be "good at it", but it just doesn't feel right at this time.
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