Nuked
Welcome, Guest
September 16, 2014, 08:27:07 AM
News: Visit our Store for Pagan Books, Wiccan Jewelry and Magical Supplies! http://wicca.com/stores/entrance.html
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry  (Read 3897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

auntygreens

  • Member
  • Willow
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 09:50:49 PM »

"Normal/regular folk avoid IRS agents like the plague"

who said i was normal in the first place?  i am in the accounting field, afterall.  *winks, while brushinf dust off her nose*

i don't think the irs or the fbi would necessarily approve of the impish side of my nature.  *sorry, lucifer*  every once in a while my edit button breaks and there is usually some commotion with guacamole or a jar of vaseline and yodeling that just breaks out. 

*and get your sick minds out of the gutter on that last one.  it was a practical joke i played on "j" when my boss informed me that his hemorrhoids gave him a little thrill.  there are just somethings you don't need to know about your boss and this was my way of making sure he didn't share any more details of his life like that again.*

my problems aren't always with jell-o.
Logged
To give love, one must acknowledge, accept, validate, and share. But most important of all of these is to reassure, as it removes doubt, fear, and hurts well beyond any other Healing in this World.

Serpentium

  • Member
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4226
  • Are the machines ready yet, Mr Tesla?
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2012, 02:00:40 AM »

Presumably these sharks are paying you, to keep their books, yes? So just keep their books, and leave their morality, or lack of it, for them to deal with. It's not your responsibility. They aren't paying you to make ethical calls, or to judge their working practices, just to enable them to pay the minimum tax you can legally arrange. If your hands feel a bit mucky at the end of a working day, then adjust your price accordingly. If it still wont sit square with you, then drop them. But best just to do the job you're paid for.

Also, there's no harm in filing certain facts away, for a rainy day either, not specifically for blackmail, but just to protect your own back. If they are morally bankrupt in their dealings with everyone else, there's no reason for you to think they're going to treat you any differently, should it become expedient. Leverage isn't Blackmail, until / unless they cross that certain line, and you decide to cash in your 'pension' and leave. No point leaving all the power in a working relationship, with someone you don't trust, is there? Self preservation. Make sure you have papers on him if you don't trust him.


Or depending on your own moral compass, remember you're in a position to totally rinse all his Bank accounts, put the money in an offshore account, in a name you can remember, and disappear with all his ill gotten assets. That might make him think about being a better person. Or it might not. Either way, it's still not your concern.
Logged
Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?

My next victim . . .  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?=743264506

lucifer

  • Member
  • Ash
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 779
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2012, 07:16:51 AM »

Or depending on your own moral compass, remember you're in a position to totally rinse all his Bank accounts, put the money in an offshore account, in a name you can remember, and disappear with all his ill gotten assets. That might make him think about being a better person. Or it might not. Either way, it's still not your concern.
It would seem to me that the bottom-feeders that she's described in this wouldn't have enough $$ in a bank account to live comfortably for 10 years (spend too much $$, selfish & stupid non-realization that they won't be making it forever), and if you're going to be committing felonious embezzelment you'd want to be pretty sure that you could live comfortably for the rest of your life on the loot...
Logged
The day people stop learning is the day they die. Life is one big classroom , from cradle to grave , a place learning is forever , some learn quickly some remain in the same class their entire life.

Earthbound Spirit

  • Council Elder
  • Maple
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10392
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2012, 08:46:47 AM »

As I recall ag said that they were successful.  If you really want to get em,  turn em in to the IRS for cheating on their taxes.  Chances are that they do.  Not only would she get the satisfaction for revenge, if she is seeking that, she will recieve 10% of any monies the IRS collects from them.
Logged
"Oh Well...Whatever...Nevermind"  Kurt Cobain

"Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you" - Kurt Cobain

Serpentium

  • Member
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4226
  • Are the machines ready yet, Mr Tesla?
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2012, 11:14:31 AM »

As I recall ag said that they were successful.  If you really want to get em,  turn em in to the IRS for cheating on their taxes.  Chances are that they do.  Not only would she get the satisfaction for revenge, if she is seeking that, she will recieve 10% of any monies the IRS collects from them.
Surely they could just blame any financial irregularities on their dodgy accountant. I certainly would. If I was a "Slippery Jim" Tax evading  type of operator. In fact, I'd make bloody sure that there was incriminating evidence implicating my accountant for the Revenue to stumble across, as a safeguard against the very kind of shenanigins you're suggesting EBS. To play dirty, I'd make sure my hands were cleaner than theirs.




eta; Is this thread getting anywhere close to "Conspiracy to commit financial fraud" yet?  :o
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 11:19:08 AM by Serpentium »
Logged
Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?

My next victim . . .  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?=743264506

Earthbound Spirit

  • Council Elder
  • Maple
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10392
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2012, 11:35:15 AM »

While that could be the excuse that they use, they still have to pay any taxes owed plus penalty and interest on it.  ag will be in the clear unless she does their taxes which I am guessing she doesn't. 
Logged
"Oh Well...Whatever...Nevermind"  Kurt Cobain

"Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you" - Kurt Cobain

lucifer

  • Member
  • Ash
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 779
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2012, 08:29:12 PM »

eta; Is this thread getting anywhere close to "Conspiracy to commit financial fraud" yet?  :o
Yeah... quite a bit, right? Maybe it should be locked and deleted
Logged
The day people stop learning is the day they die. Life is one big classroom , from cradle to grave , a place learning is forever , some learn quickly some remain in the same class their entire life.

auntygreens

  • Member
  • Willow
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2012, 09:25:49 PM »

oh, dear.  i certainly didn't mean this for... well... i just wanted some help.  not cause an argument or encourage fraud in any way.

it isn't that i seek revenge.  or punishment.  lucifer and i discussed that i had considered doing forensic accounting at one point, perhaps with the fbi.

the morality issue comes from being consistently asked to "bend" the rules to get the better bottom line.  bend em so hard they break.  some people feel that if you are being paid to do a job, do the job and don't question it.  i can't- not from what my gut tells me.  i have spoken with a lawyer and received legal council, after i left boss #1's place.  and yes, a bookkeeper can do time for just doing what they are told.

i don't do taxes.  payroll tax, sales tax, yes.  but not if the pool is dirty and i definitely don't do year end taxes.  for more than one reason.  but mostly because i LIKE being a bookkeeper.  just as much as being an office manager.  i like the logistics.  and the patterns that the values make when entered in over a course of time.  i like the challenge of a variety of tasks to do and complete.  i like changing hats during the day, and bopping between payroll, ap, ar, and all the other ins and outs of the small office.  i loved being in a construction office.  there was always something new going on.  always something new to learn.  i learned to draw blue prints well enough to be turned in to an engineering office and town boards for approval.  i learned so much about green technology.  each project brought on a new bookkeeping challenge.  i like finding the creative solutions for easy information retrieval and choosing activities that have multiple positive effects.  such as metal recycling that helps pay for a job site.  or storing month end information in 13 jackets a year instead of multiple binders and folders.  using shredded sensitive material for packing (once its been mixed up enough) and then donating the rest to the local pet store or spca for litter.  each of those things can be used to eliminate cost, recycle, reduce waste, and still get the job done effectively.

i am leaving the position anyway.  before it becomes a problem (like year end).  and i didn't accept the position with the twice-audited guy.  the temp company i went through for that interview is impressed with my skills and is keeping an eye out for me. 

the heartache, i guess i want to call it that, comes from knowing that what is being asked of me is not kosher and how I should deal with it.  not how i should punish those who do it in the first place, because i can't control them.  i can only control myself and my actions.  i don't think i really want to go back to living that much chaos and be that combative anymore.  and that is the answer i think i have been looking for, to give myself guidance in the next few weeks while i mull over this part of myself.  i don't want to paint myself into a corner with my straight edgy ethics, but i don't want to turn into that which disgusts me either.  i know how to cya, in case of a problem.  and how to do that legally, thanks to the other advice i have received. 

i have taken out a GL policy on myself as a dba.  so, i have an extra layer of coverage.  it isn't malpractice.  but it is an extra something in case of a major problem.  i have an accountant staff and a lawyer that know me well, as well as references from an insurance agent and a bank that will all swear to my code of conduct.  i started this years ago.  those references are gold to me and i treat those people with the respect and courtesy that they deserve.  these are also good habits to have, whether or not there is a legal issue.

the rest comes down to how much in the grey i want to live.  and how to deal with those people who want to push me past that level.  how to negotiate those cow pies without setting myself up for an even worse situation.  and if i am the one that needs to change, in order to achieve that, then that is what i must do.  i want to come home at the end of the day and know i did my best and have enough energy to enjoy my personal life.  i want to stop feeling used and mistreated by these people.  and if i am the one that is causing it by being too hard, then i need to soften.  or change where i am looking for employment.

this is why i turned to you.  because you, on this board, don't sugar coat.  even in compassion.  each of you have given me insight.  to myself.  to my issues, even if i haven't fully laid them out.  i wish to be my own change.  without focusing so hard on the unhealthy negatives i am trying to get away from.  so, i am sorry for the turn this has taken.  wasn't my intention at all.
Logged
To give love, one must acknowledge, accept, validate, and share. But most important of all of these is to reassure, as it removes doubt, fear, and hurts well beyond any other Healing in this World.

Scorched Eartha

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2416
  • Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 11:09:29 PM »

Quite frankly they don't do enough for people with tax dollars for me to be worried about who's skimming what. But for your own protection and security you need to make sure that they are not making a profit from risks being taken in your name. If you're the company accountant and the shit hits the fan, will you be legally liable for any transgressions? How many times have you seen owners and directors walk away free and clear while the lawyer and accountant do Federal time?

Over half of all the taxes collected in the US go straight to the military, so by fudging tax all you're really doing is buying one less bullet for a kid in Afghanistan to get hit by. But if your own freedom and good name are at risk, then it's way too much of a chance to take and you need to leave.

The IRS, like the tax organ of any country has no interest in pursuing the real tax cheats. The billion dollar a year cartels and monopolies, off shoring and downsizing the way to record unemployment levels. They persecute the little people. They torment some poor bloody tradesman who made an honest mistake and waitresses who forget to count every tip they received...not Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg with multi million dollar write offs for Lear Jets they swan about the globe stealing from people in.

And Lucifer of you're looking for a career why not become a copper? You seem to have the right mindset for it.
Logged
If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up.

You better take care of me Lord, if you don't you're gonna have me on your hands.

The Edge there's no honest way to explain it as the only people who really know where it is have gone over.

lucifer

  • Member
  • Ash
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 779
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2012, 07:56:52 AM »

And Lucifer of you're looking for a career why not become a copper? You seem to have the right mindset for it.
You obviously know very little about me, then.

I don't need to be corrupt and bloodthirsty. I have no desire to bully people. I despise the system as it currently is and would not want to be any part of it. Cops aren't allowed the ability to think - they are simply told the laws and told to enforce them. I would break any law which I deemed to be unjust (i.e. can't smoke pot but can drink alcohol [and for the record, I don't do either anymore]). I am an anti-authoritarian, seeing as any form of authority has had to play the games of the system so long that they've forgotten the difference between RIGHT and WRONG.

So, yeah... no. Give me a job counseling broken families any day over a job where I have to break families apart.

::edit::
Just because I know how to play the game doesn't mean that I have any desire to do it, but if my job took me where auntygreens has taken her... I would very likely find a way to reflect all the bad from the vultures that she's been working with right back at them.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 08:00:07 AM by lucifer »
Logged
The day people stop learning is the day they die. Life is one big classroom , from cradle to grave , a place learning is forever , some learn quickly some remain in the same class their entire life.

Earthbound Spirit

  • Council Elder
  • Maple
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10392
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2012, 12:12:42 PM »

eta; Is this thread getting anywhere close to "Conspiracy to commit financial fraud" yet?  :o
Yeah... quite a bit, right? Maybe it should be locked and deleted

No chance at the moment.....
Logged
"Oh Well...Whatever...Nevermind"  Kurt Cobain

"Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you" - Kurt Cobain

Serpentium

  • Member
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4226
  • Are the machines ready yet, Mr Tesla?
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2012, 12:14:33 PM »

Quote
Before you set out to destroy "the System", however, first remember that we made it and in our own interests.  We sustain it constantly, either in agreement, with our support, or in opposition with our dissent.  The opponents of the System are as much a function of the System as its defenders.  The System is a ghost, assembled in the minds of human beings operating within "the System."  It is a virtual parent we made to look after us.  We made it very big and difficult to see in its entirety and we serve it and nourish it every day. 
Logged
Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?

My next victim . . .  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?=743264506

Firesong

  • Council Elder
  • Walnut
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4108
  • Laughin' at the Angels, laughin' at you;
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2012, 11:22:48 AM »

oh, dear.  i certainly didn't mean this for... well... i just wanted some help.  not cause an argument or encourage fraud in any way.

it isn't that i seek revenge.  or punishment.  lucifer and i discussed that i had considered doing forensic accounting at one point, perhaps with the fbi.

the morality issue comes from being consistently asked to "bend" the rules to get the better bottom line.  bend em so hard they break.  some people feel that if you are being paid to do a job, do the job and don't question it.  i can't- not from what my gut tells me.  i have spoken with a lawyer and received legal council, after i left boss #1's place.  and yes, a bookkeeper can do time for just doing what they are told.

i don't do taxes.  payroll tax, sales tax, yes.  but not if the pool is dirty and i definitely don't do year end taxes.  for more than one reason.  but mostly because i LIKE being a bookkeeper.  just as much as being an office manager.  i like the logistics.  and the patterns that the values make when entered in over a course of time.  i like the challenge of a variety of tasks to do and complete.  i like changing hats during the day, and bopping between payroll, ap, ar, and all the other ins and outs of the small office.  i loved being in a construction office.  there was always something new going on.  always something new to learn.  i learned to draw blue prints well enough to be turned in to an engineering office and town boards for approval.  i learned so much about green technology.  each project brought on a new bookkeeping challenge.  i like finding the creative solutions for easy information retrieval and choosing activities that have multiple positive effects.  such as metal recycling that helps pay for a job site.  or storing month end information in 13 jackets a year instead of multiple binders and folders.  using shredded sensitive material for packing (once its been mixed up enough) and then donating the rest to the local pet store or spca for litter.  each of those things can be used to eliminate cost, recycle, reduce waste, and still get the job done effectively.

i am leaving the position anyway.  before it becomes a problem (like year end).  and i didn't accept the position with the twice-audited guy.  the temp company i went through for that interview is impressed with my skills and is keeping an eye out for me. 

the heartache, i guess i want to call it that, comes from knowing that what is being asked of me is not kosher and how I should deal with it.  not how i should punish those who do it in the first place, because i can't control them.  i can only control myself and my actions.  i don't think i really want to go back to living that much chaos and be that combative anymore.  and that is the answer i think i have been looking for, to give myself guidance in the next few weeks while i mull over this part of myself.  i don't want to paint myself into a corner with my straight edgy ethics, but i don't want to turn into that which disgusts me either.  i know how to cya, in case of a problem.  and how to do that legally, thanks to the other advice i have received. 

i have taken out a GL policy on myself as a dba.  so, i have an extra layer of coverage.  it isn't malpractice.  but it is an extra something in case of a major problem.  i have an accountant staff and a lawyer that know me well, as well as references from an insurance agent and a bank that will all swear to my code of conduct.  i started this years ago.  those references are gold to me and i treat those people with the respect and courtesy that they deserve.  these are also good habits to have, whether or not there is a legal issue.

the rest comes down to how much in the grey i want to live.  and how to deal with those people who want to push me past that level.  how to negotiate those cow pies without setting myself up for an even worse situation.  and if i am the one that needs to change, in order to achieve that, then that is what i must do.  i want to come home at the end of the day and know i did my best and have enough energy to enjoy my personal life.  i want to stop feeling used and mistreated by these people.  and if i am the one that is causing it by being too hard, then i need to soften.  or change where i am looking for employment.

this is why i turned to you.  because you, on this board, don't sugar coat.  even in compassion.  each of you have given me insight.  to myself.  to my issues, even if i haven't fully laid them out.  i wish to be my own change.  without focusing so hard on the unhealthy negatives i am trying to get away from.  so, i am sorry for the turn this has taken.  wasn't my intention at all.

You didn't cause any problems AG... I think many people just don't realize that when you deal with finances, it's not only important to avoid impropriety, but also the appearance of impropriety...
Logged
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."
~Thomas Paine

blue

  • Member
  • Birch
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2293
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2012, 06:49:13 PM »


 This seems simple to me. Life is a series of tradeoffs. In order to aquire the wealth something else has to be traded off for the gain. If you look closely at the life of " The Sharks " it's easy to see the price that they're paying. If you're a straight shooter then you're paying another kind of price but you may posess a peace of mind and love that the rich man will never know.

 It's all in knowing your true self and making the choices that are consistent with who you truly are as a person.

 There's no sense in getting tangled up in other people's messes or doling out retribution. That which goes around comes around. Go to punish somebody for their actions and you punish yourself.

 That's kinda stupid .... besides .... nobody escapes the consequense of their choices and actions. You pay right now in this lifetime, and possibly in the hereafter.

 It's really not a matter of faith but an observation of how certain principles hold consistently true.
Logged

marisol

  • Member
  • Redwood
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5164
  • Blessed be all in the Goddess
Re: Ethical Light Side/ Dark Side quandry
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2012, 01:31:30 PM »

AG you have caused no problems that I can see. Please don't leave after this one topic, but stay
and help us, may of us need help. I'm enjoying you being back.

Goddess bless
Logged
Protect your 2nd amendment rights.
It's so easy to laugh, It's so easy to hate. It takes guts to be gentle and kind. Morrissey

Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are.   Kurt Cobain
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up