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Author Topic: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?  (Read 3397 times)

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Old Stoneface

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 09:13:21 AM »

I'm ready to accept that you guys here believe in reincarnation in whatever form you believe. What I always want to know is why you believe a particular thing? Where is your evidence (forgetting proof for now)?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know how people reach the conclusion that certain beliefs are true, while others aren't. 

At the present I regard myself as a spiritual atheist, for want of a better term. Give me evidence-based reasoning and I will change my mind. *insert quote from Xfiles here*
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JadeSpawn

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 09:46:47 AM »

Well i wont attempt to justify what i believe but i cant explain more or less how i came to believe that.

Well i was brought up Catholic, and of course we all know that song and dance bout heaven, well when i first started my research into Wicca and read about reincarnation, i was discussing it with my wife. She too is interested in the path but very busy with her schooling to attempt taking on anymore at the time. Well as i was telling her was i was reading at the time, she asked me "so when i die, i wont end up with my family and loved ones?", well i thought bout it and it kinda just smacked me in the head. So i basically told her what i told you guys, and not only did it feel right to me, it even put her mind at ease. I guess sometimes, discussing how you feeling about it the cycle of reincarnation with someone, and not just regurgitating written text to them, but actually contemplate what it may mean to you, help one realize what is right for them.

Not sure if i just made it more confusing, but hope it helps.
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marisol

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2012, 12:13:16 PM »

There is no way to prove reincarnation, as no one has returned to say it is true. Only the God and Goddess have knowledge of this mystery. Reincarnation teaches us that the "spark of light" or the
soul is indestructible. So the soul moves on continuously from one body to the next, as one life
ends the next life begins.

As our life ends it travels to Summerland to rest, until it is reborn. How long we rest in Summerland is unknown, no one who has returned has any memory of that.

Reincarnation is a personal belief. Most Wiccans I have spoken with do believe in reincarnation.
Many religions all over the world believe in reincarnation.  Many Pagans also believe. I also believe
I will be reincarnated. It's a comforting way to look at death as only the beginning.
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Earthbound Spirit

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 12:38:00 PM »

Noone really knows what the deal is until we pass.  So, only time will tell.  Reincarnation is a very sound belief imo.
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lucifer

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 03:42:22 PM »

At the present I regard myself as a spiritual atheist, for want of a better term. Give me evidence-based reasoning and I will change my mind. *insert quote from Xfiles here*
What you seem to be from your description, Old Stoneface, is called Agnostic. It means that while you don't currently believe in the existence of a god/goddess or gods (plural) you are open to the possibility of being wrong. An Atheist is someone who entirely rejects the possibility of any gods and even if it could be proven they probably wouldn't accept it :-p (i.e. the difference between "I don't personally believe" and "There is no way it's possible")

As far as suggestive evidence, I could use the same argument that Christians would, which is that we have a universe that endlessly falls into chaos unless it's kept up but for some reason it managed to create us, and we manage to keep the said chaos at bay (or at least we trick ourselves into believing that we do...). Look around you, everything you see is decaying and falling apart (except for living things which haven't matured yet)... How is it that somewhere in this chaos things would stop falling apart long enough to spawn creatures intelligent enough to realize what was happening and then attempt to stop it?

However, you could be right and this could all be the ... effect of some uncaused cause some 15 billion years ago (or however old the universe is in this decade), but the real question you'd need to ask yourself is that if something caused the universe to be created, where did that something come from? The answer to this question for me is that I don't know and I don't care... What created the universe doesn't affect how I'm supposed to live my life :-p
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 07:00:28 PM by lucifer »
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C_A

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2012, 05:38:23 AM »

Wiccans, (or, at least, Orthodox Wiccans...), believe in reincarnation.

Label it however you like...(I like "rebirth"!), but the point of it all, short answer, YES.
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Old Stoneface

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2012, 06:45:03 AM »

At the present I regard myself as a spiritual atheist, for want of a better term. Give me evidence-based reasoning and I will change my mind. *insert quote from Xfiles here*
What you seem to be from your description, Old Stoneface, is called Agnostic. It means that while you don't currently believe in the existence of a god/goddess or gods (plural) you are open to the possibility of being wrong. An Atheist is someone who entirely rejects the possibility of any gods and even if it could be proven they probably wouldn't accept it :-p (i.e. the difference between "I don't personally believe" and "There is no way it's possible")

As far as suggestive evidence, I could use the same argument that Christians would, which is that we have a universe that endlessly falls into chaos unless it's kept up but for some reason it managed to create us, and we manage to keep the said chaos at bay (or at least we trick ourselves into believing that we do...). Look around you, everything you see is decaying and falling apart (except for living things which haven't matured yet)... How is it that somewhere in this chaos things would stop falling apart long enough to spawn creatures intelligent enough to realize what was happening and then attempt to stop it?

However, you could be right and this could all be the ... effect of some uncaused cause some 15 billion years ago (or however old the universe is in this decade), but the real question you'd need to ask yourself is that if something caused the universe to be created, where did that something come from? The answer to this question for me is that I don't know and I don't care... What created the universe doesn't affect how I'm supposed to live my life :-p


Actually I don't believe any gods or goddesses exist, but I believe in the spirituality of human beings. I just don't see any evidence that spirituality exists outside of the human brain. Nor do I see any need for it to exist elsewhere than my own head.
 As for the answers that have been given to my query (which was about religious belief in general, not just about reincarnation), I still am seeing no answer to "why?".
Don't sweat it; I've asked the same of christians, muslims, jehovah's witnesses and a scientologist. Still no satisfactory answer. I suspect there isn't one, but I'll keep searching.
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Earthbound Spirit

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2012, 06:58:52 AM »

At the present I regard myself as a spiritual atheist, for want of a better term. Give me evidence-based reasoning and I will change my mind. *insert quote from Xfiles here*
What you seem to be from your description, Old Stoneface, is called Agnostic. It means that while you don't currently believe in the existence of a god/goddess or gods (plural) you are open to the possibility of being wrong. An Atheist is someone who entirely rejects the possibility of any gods and even if it could be proven they probably wouldn't accept it :-p (i.e. the difference between "I don't personally believe" and "There is no way it's possible")

As far as suggestive evidence, I could use the same argument that Christians would, which is that we have a universe that endlessly falls into chaos unless it's kept up but for some reason it managed to create us, and we manage to keep the said chaos at bay (or at least we trick ourselves into believing that we do...). Look around you, everything you see is decaying and falling apart (except for living things which haven't matured yet)... How is it that somewhere in this chaos things would stop falling apart long enough to spawn creatures intelligent enough to realize what was happening and then attempt to stop it?

However, you could be right and this could all be the ... effect of some uncaused cause some 15 billion years ago (or however old the universe is in this decade), but the real question you'd need to ask yourself is that if something caused the universe to be created, where did that something come from? The answer to this question for me is that I don't know and I don't care... What created the universe doesn't affect how I'm supposed to live my life :-p


Actually I don't believe any gods or goddesses exist, but I believe in the spirituality of human beings. I just don't see any evidence that spirituality exists outside of the human brain. Nor do I see any need for it to exist elsewhere than my own head.
 As for the answers that have been given to my query (which was about religious belief in general, not just about reincarnation), I still am seeing no answer to "why?".
Don't sweat it; I've asked the same of christians, muslims, jehovah's witnesses and a scientologist. Still no satisfactory answer. I suspect there isn't one, but I'll keep searching.

Jfc dude, The Witnesses? 

Damn, a true atheist based on the bolded part.

It's tough for me to look at quite a bit in this life and not see the divine.  I am a pantheist at heart, so I see The Divine in most things.


Wiccans, (or, at least, Orthodox Wiccans...), believe in reincarnation.

Label it however you like...(I like "rebirth"!), but the point of it all, short answer, YES.

Good to see you C_A :)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 08:05:25 AM by Earthbound Spirit »
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marisol

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2012, 07:08:13 AM »

It's wonderful to see you around C_A.
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Old Stoneface

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2012, 11:17:49 AM »

EBS - yeah, the witnesses. They have a strong presence in this locality; in fact, I'm quite friendly with a few of them, so long as we don't discuss faith issues. But arguing with them can be very entertaining ;-)
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lucifer

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2012, 02:58:52 PM »

As for the answers that have been given to my query (which was about religious belief in general, not just about reincarnation), I still am seeing no answer to "why?".
Don't sweat it; I've asked the same of christians, muslims, jehovah's witnesses and a scientologist. Still no satisfactory answer. I suspect there isn't one, but I'll keep searching.
Why? You can't ask someone why they have faith, because there is no answer based anywhere which could be scientifically measured.

I could tell you that I know that the Goddess exists because of the parts and pieces of information that she's given specifically to me on numerous occasions and because of a few conversations which we've had (yes... conversations with the divine)... and a few dreams that were sent to me from somewhere beyond my own mind...

However, The Goddess as we know her may just be a prefix... or possibly a genetic memory that was built into our brains. It may be that she is no longer here but we all have the memory of her somewhere deep down if we can manage to find ourselves void of the external things which we've been tought and clear of our own thoughts...

I can't prove it, and I'll never be able to prove it. If you don't believe - there's nothing that any human can say that would make you believe... or understand why we believe like we do... but that's ok, because The Goddess doesn't demand your praise or even an acknowledgement :-p

::edit::
If you were asking specifically about reincarnation because that's what the book says (pick one, that's what it'll say)... It's a long-standing belief that has (in one form or another) peppered itself through cultures since the beginning of human civilization. It would make sense that if you can't experience it all in one life (there's no way that a human can experience EVERYTHING this world has to offer in one lifetime... it's not possible [you'll only die one way, as an example]) then your spirit should be given as much time as it needs to explore and experience this world. Here's another example of no proof, and it doesn't really matter. If I'm right, I'm right... YAY! If I'm wrong, well... I wouldn't be around to wallow in being wrong, so it's no big deal.

Belief in an afterlife or a rebirth is a great way to say that death is no big deal - nothing to fear, nothing to lament, nothing to worry about - it's just a part of life.

(This doesn't change how I feel about prematurely causing an end to someone's [yours or another person's] current life...) (this last part isn't directed at you, Old Stoneface)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 03:19:37 PM by lucifer »
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Serpentium

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2012, 03:30:56 PM »

So our souls are like . . . . some kind of hard drive? And at the end of our lives, when they won't re-boot any more, and they're full of malicious rootkits, trojan horse viruses all zombying for some botnet somewhere, when our system is no longer operable, some divine hand  takes us offline, unplugs us from the motherboard, and . . . . . . what?  Reformats our C Drives? 


Keeps our documents folder on a separate partition perhaps?

The question in this scenario for me, is whether or not we have global administrative powers. To access the partition where (hopefully) the experience and wisdom of our "previous lives installs" are kept.


If we are, then why can't we remember these installs at will? Why can't we remember this previously stored data, and then, by cross referencing any corresponding data stored on hard copy records, prove empirically that past life memory has some validity?


Does user modification to the OS, or to the hardware configuration invalidate the warranty? If we start running software that hasn't had verification from the system manufacturer, do we breach the contract? Instead of getting reformatted, will we be recycled? Melted down for our metal parts?


On my computer, I don't mind running software sourced from P-P torrent sites. If I get hardware conflicts, I can replace bits, until I get it sorted. If there's a sticker on the case that says "No user serviceable parts" I'll ignore it, because I've found that much of the time that's a downright lie.


So running with this analogy, I've probably hacked my spiritual C Drive completely. If I had Global admin status in the first place, then why was the drive partitioned? If I didn't, then I've usurped the power of some spiritual systems admin. In which case, what does "free will" really mean?


I want my cake, and I want to eat it. What's the point of having a cake, if you're prevented from eating it? If that's the kind of cake you're selling, then I don't want it.


If I've made my bed, then yes, I'm quite happy to lie in it. Why would I have made my bed, if I wasn't going to lie in it? I might even get some cake crumbs it. Bite me.


I'll tweak the analogy a little now. Instead of having previous documents in that partition, there's an automated remote control unit, set to factory defaults. It's fairly unimaginatively programmed, but it's robust enough to be functional.


Now, if there's an autopilot running the program I like to call; "me", then that's wonderful. It explains how I've managed to keep my meat mobile for 46 years. It explains "luck". It also suggests some kind of intelligent design.


But I want the option of manual over ride. Without this, the "me" program is no more than another piece of botnet malware. Filling up the meat world with spiritual spam. There might be something that's been overlooked in my spam folder. It happens. I demand to see. "Oh my, there's some ugly complicated shit in there". Well? I'm a complicated kinda person. I'll cope. Or not. Either way, I'm not giving global control over MY bloody C Drive, to some overlord nanny algorithm, no matter how stable it is.


Once you've accessed the partition, you can't really just do a sys.rest and pretend you never saw it. The Genie won't go back in the bottle. It's not my fault. I didn't design the runtime environment. I'm just going to hack it for my own curiosities sake. The "me" program is human. Humans are dynamically predisposed towards curious behaviour. If that's a bug in the human program, then it's probably best to have another look at the code.


But if our curiosity is an A.I Driver that periodically opens software expansion packs, then my analogy is still good.


So a rare thing has happened. From beginning to end, one of my interminably long and rambling posts (no no, It's ok) hasn't contradicted itself, fallen apart, or (hopefully) insulted the intelligence of anyone who has followed it's (admittedly shaky) logic. So I'd best shut up now before I ruin it.       
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 03:35:03 PM by Serpentium »
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lucifer

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2012, 03:55:58 PM »

Quote from: Serpentium link=topic=8045.msg178902#msg178902
The question in this scenario for me, is whether or not we have global administrative powers. To access the partition where (hopefully) the experience and wisdom of our "previous lives installs" are kept.
Can we access it? There are channels...

Are we supposed to? Well... it probably wasn't part of the original design, but it does happen & the divine system admins can't really fault us for utilizing said channels...

If it was that big of a deal, the system admins should - like you mentioned - patch the exploit :-p
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 03:59:32 PM by lucifer »
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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2012, 04:33:00 PM »

Quote from: Serpentium link=topic=8045.msg178902#msg178902
The question in this scenario for me, is whether or not we have global administrative powers. To access the partition where (hopefully) the experience and wisdom of our "previous lives installs" are kept.
Can we access it? There are channels...

Are we supposed to? Well... it probably wasn't part of the original design, but it does happen & the divine system admins can't really fault us for utilizing said channels...

If it was that big of a deal, the system admins should - like you mentioned - patch the exploit :-p
What do you think the "Religion" clause is, if not some kind of admin bugfix? Blind Faith? Papal infallibilty? Halal/Haram? All tropes to discourage user interference with the 'supernatural' aspects of the runtime process. Historically, many leaps in human understanding are branded as Heresy and suppressed. Creating a creature with incurable curiosity and then telling them not to question certain things is not the act of a benevolent creator. It's the act of a frightened despot. Which scenario is it? Are we going to get punished for the way we were supposedly created? Or rewarded? Because that's what it all comes down to, Theologically.
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lucifer

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Re: Do Wiccans Believe in Reincarnation?
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2012, 06:19:49 PM »

What do you think the "Religion" clause is, if not some kind of admin bugfix?
Another user who should be minding their own F----N- business trying to tell others what they should or shouldn't do to exert some level of control that they aren't entitled to over other people...?

The way that many organized religions these days are practiced has been perverted and exploited by the clergy & is nothing more than an attempt to maintain control... It's got very little to do with the will of the divine system admins (...)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:21:58 PM by lucifer »
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