Celtic Connection Forums

Spiritual Connection => Pagan Q and A => Topic started by: Anu on September 20, 2010, 01:20:26 AM

Title: Reincarnation
Post by: Anu on September 20, 2010, 01:20:26 AM
I recall having this conversation a long time ago, and was interested in what folk here now might think.

Reincarnation is not something I've ever believed in.

Let me explain. My beliefs aren't nearly as complicated as that. I believe that we are all part of the Universal Energy, just a particular manifestation of it, and when our body dies, our spirit becomes one with the Universe again. If necessary our essense can reform for family members or to get a message across, but for the most part - back in to the whole.

When a new baby is born, Universal Energy will create it's body and spirit - and somewhere in there might be an echo of a memory of mine, a penchant for pistachios - the inate knowledge of how to drive a pallet truck having never even seen one before that I had in my lifetime, the memory of the East Cliffs at sunset in dreams when they haven't a clue where it is and have never been there. But it won't have all of my experience and life behind it - there may be many echos from many others who have rejoined with the All, and it might experience some of those - or none.

I can't believe that I'm in some kind of spiritual Groundhog Day, and I don't. ;)

To be more concise, I don't believe that my spirit in it's entirety is going to be placed into another body when this one dies, to re-live life again and again and again. I don't believe in reincarnation in that sense at all.

For those who do, I'm interested in how one would ever learn all of the lessons they are 'supposed' to, in order to be permitted to go to 'Heaven' or 'Summerlands'? Even if for example, someone claims to have some recollection of a 'past life' through regression - surely they wouldn't be able to remember all of the 'mistakes' they made in all of their previous lives in order to have a successful and acceptable do-over?

I mean no disrespect, but that seems like more of a punishment than anything else - a living hell perhaps for someone who believes in reincarnation - because the very fact of their existance means that they haven't got it right. And if they feel they have lived many lives - then they aren't 'getting it' at all - seems more like torment. How can the life lessons that one is supposed to learn, be lessons without any information about the mistakes made previously, to work with?

Surely if you can't remember your previous lessons and goals from other incarnations - then they are new to you anyway!

I suppose what I'm not getting ... well, is the point of it really. Let's look at one life-time for example. Say Jane has a friend that needs her help - but she is busy at work and flicks them off. She then discovers that it was serious and they're in hospital in a coma at the hands of another person. She learns from this experience, and pays attention to her friends in future - to ensure she won't make the mistake again.

Jane has also just come out of her second abusive relationship. This time she's managed to identify why she is enabling this kind of behaviour and makes the conscious decision to change, because of her past experiences.

She's been in Customer Services, and the pent up aggression that she has not been able to vent at home, she's been venting at work - and has been very unpopular with Customers and co-workers alike. Her Supervisor met with her for an appraisal, asked the right questions without being overly critical - and she was able to confide in this person - and that helped her to get out of her abusive relationship at home and identify how NOT to face that situation again. Work relationships are now good.

Jane has the benefit of experience and hindsight in THIS life. Not from other lives. Therefore what is the point of being reincarnated if it doesn't help you in the here and now?

What makes up her personality? Is this lost when she is reincarnated? If so, then she becomes a totally different person - how is that reincarnation? :) In the next life, if she is the same personality, is she not going to be predisposed to immerse herself in work and neglect her friends again, or get into abusive relationships, or be the office bitch? What good would living another life be in that case? Yes you will have different experiences - but when one reaches the end of their final reincarnation, do they remember all the lives they've lived at once - thereby knowing all the experiences and lessons?

Told you I didn't 'get it'. ;) Any explanation from someone who truly believes it - well I'd be extremely interested.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on September 20, 2010, 01:42:44 AM
For the most part, I tend to follow a similar line of thought. To believe in reincarnation one also needs to have some concept of Karma.
One school of thought indicates that there is not good or bad karma, just karma. The idea of good karma was created by the hippie generation to justify their way of life and the philosophy they were attempting to create around drugs and "make love..."

Personally, I just can't get my mind around the idea of attaining demerit points for the way I conduct my self that will dictate what sort of life I will earn in the future. As you say, it becomes an endless process, almost a prison of existence.

I've said for some time that when this body dies, my "soul" will be released to rejoin the source. There, much of the energy will merge, sharing the knowledge and the leasons learned. What remains is a divine spark that is our higher self. If required, that spark will take on what energy is needed to bridge the span between the Astral and the physical worlds. That energy will contain whatever bits of information or memories from any number of other beings, possibly from a great number of historic times.

I'll leave it there for now. Any more will just be repeating Anu's comments.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Lena on September 20, 2010, 06:31:37 AM
@Anu

I embrace your thoughts. I call what you said 'Universal Energy', 'Universal Consciousness'.

Having in mind what reincarnation is believed to be, supposing that cases such "children being able to speak fluently in a different language (even dead ones) withought being taught" are truthfull, and by what I strongly believe (that the Truth allways lies in the middle of opposite opinions/theories), I've so far come to the following opinion on the subject.. It's possible that I'll change them or alter them throughout my life by experiences or conversations, but right now, this is it:

In addition to what you believe, I give heaviness to the persons' consciousness.
I think that a persons' consciousness tries constantly to reach a higher level during the persons' lifetime. Ignoring (or comply with) that effort is what raises/(results as) Karma..
I don't think that someone carries Karma from a previous life; maybe 'memories' or tendencies via 'memories'... This way, I don't believe you carry any 'failed' or 'succeeded lessons' in 'another life', should that exists.

A soul for me is the combination of ones' consciousness and spirit/psychism. Maybe once the psychism of a person is too charged at the end of a lifetime, the consciousness will not find 'it's way back' to the Source.
Maybe it will haunt something of someone.. Maybe even during birth..
Or maybe the Universe allows that soul to be 're-birthed' in a new body.. (<-- That I prefer)

This way, I accept and justify reincarnation (and ghosts) so far. It's not solid as a belief but this is how far I've managed to go with the whole idea..

About the torment you've mentioned..
Not only those religions that support reincarnation seem to embrace the theory that you have to cope with a lifetime through torments to gain Heaven, The Gardens of Eden, the Elysian Fields an so on.. Maybe I lost your point there or your question was about the many-lives-to-live; thus, the more the torture is? If so, what you don't know (in this case 'remember') cannot hurt you, no?



If I don't make sense due to my English, let me know and I'll erase this post. I like the subject too much to watch it getting derailed or something
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: soulfire on September 20, 2010, 09:15:12 AM
For the most part I agree with you, Lena.  I believe in the immediacy of 'karma' or the universal law of cause and effect.  I do not believe in 'from lifetime to lifetime' karma. 

I believe that individual consciousnesses do reincarnate but only b'cuz this is the playground of God.  How can God/All/universal energy/cosmic muffin/insert title here experience life but through us?  Therefore, for this life I am a handicapped woman trying to recover.  In another I may be a businessman trying to learn compassion.  And in another I may be a thief in prison, or etc.  How that occurs I don't claim to know. 

"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players."  I truly believe that.  Sometimes i need to step to the back of the theater and become the audience to remind myself of that...
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: gingerberrycc on September 20, 2010, 01:15:12 PM
I know you asked for replies from people who "truly believes it," but I'm gonna put my 2 cents in here.

I hold similar beliefs as you when it comes to "reincarnation." I believe that all of our energy is reabsorbed into the Universal All, and then reallocated to form new life (animal, vegetable, mineral, whatever). Our personality is made up of 2 things: 1. Our (somewhat) unique energy makeup as given by the divine. 2. Our experiences, which leave an imprint on our energies like a stamp pushed into clay. Upon death, our energies are redistributed and the impressions are faded (if not altogether gone). Lessons learned are lessons for this lifetime, and have no effect on any future entities our energies may go to.

So in your example I would say that Jane is in fact another person, or people when she dies.

I don't know that I would normally call this reincarnation, but for the fact that it seems to be an easier way to describe it to people. It is difficult for me to answer the question "Do you believe in reincarnation?", because most people would probably classify my beliefs in that way (because I don't believe in Summerlands or Heaven).

Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Firesong on September 20, 2010, 04:53:26 PM
"One school of thought indicates that there is not good or bad karma, just karma. The idea of good karma was created by the hippie generation to justify their way of life and the philosophy they were attempting to create around drugs and "make love..."

Thank you!  I get so bored with the New Age definitions of karma... *sigh*  If you toss up a handful of sand on a windy day, and it hits you in the eyes, that's karma.   It's a metric, not a force to be reckoned with, or beholden to.  It lets us learn from the past by reviewing our unskillful actions and hopefully, prevent them from happening in the future, or at least allowing us to recognize the situation when it arises.

Anu, your explanation makes perfect sense to me.  As a Christian, I believe that Heaven is the state of being one with G-d, and Hell is the state of being totally isolated from G-d, so it's really consistent as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Anu on September 21, 2010, 05:01:36 AM
Sorry gingerberrycc, my intention wasn't to try and limit responses to those who only believe in reincarnation. I'm always happy to read everyone's replies. :)
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: ejfinch on September 21, 2010, 08:41:37 AM
I definitely believe in reincarnation. It seems, to me anyway, to be about the only way to explain things like "child prodigies" My best friend and I are so incredibly close, and have been since we were FOUR years old, that I can't explain that relationship any other way. It sounds a bit ridiculous to say that we have been close for that long, but it is actually true. My parents have always considered her to be their "seventh" kid. I have always been closer to her than my own sisters and the fact that we have only grown closer in the last 41 years, and not apart, just reinforces, in my mind, that we were close in some way in another life. My husband is convinced we were twins in the past! I also wonder about situations where someone treats you incredibly badly, with no apparent explanation. It makes me wonder if maybe I did something really crappy to that person in another life, in another situation, and their "soul" recognizes mine.... I'm starting to sound like a nutball, but these are the things that make me inclined to believe in reincarnation.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: KissTheMiMes on September 28, 2010, 07:43:36 AM
I like what you had to say ej. I do need to study more on reincarnation and Summerland myself, though. Now I'm going to sound like a nutball, or maybe just a nerd, for this reference.
In "Avatar(The last airbender"[Its awesome people]), the avatar was known by going through a test. The test was to pick certain toys laid out in front of him. A boy named Aang picked the toys the past Avatars had played with, so they knew Aang was the new avatar. He picked the toys his passed lives had liked. He was their present reincarnation, see? So wouldn't that still be the same as your reincarnate(?) liking pistachios that you mentioned Anu?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Draco3Aero on September 29, 2010, 08:17:50 PM
i believe in reincarnation. although my thoughts rest on when we ar4 human we make choices whether or not to be "good". when that decision is made and we die if we were true to ourselves and others in the pursuit of happiness we become the animal  that reflects us. on the other hand when we die an untrue life we are spit into many pieces and return as insects. when all the insects die all the pieces come back together, as a human, to make the choice once again. when a animal dies, it returns to human also to make the choice again. its a cycle. there are probably more attributes that need more explaining but this is whats true to me. these are just my thoughts! ;D

blesses
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Emerald47 on October 03, 2010, 09:02:23 AM
A very interesting topic.
Thank you everyone!
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: FireWillow on October 03, 2010, 01:51:05 PM
When a new baby is born, Universal Energy will create it's body and spirit - and somewhere in there might be an echo of a memory of mine, a For those who do, I'm interested in how one would ever learn all of the lessons they are 'supposed' to, in order to be permitted to go to 'Heaven' or 'Summerlands'? Even if for example, someone claims to have some recollection of a 'past life' through regression - surely they wouldn't be able to remember all of the 'mistakes' they made in all of their previous lives in order to have a successful and acceptable do-over?

For me (and if I am correct, most Wiccans), Summerland is not the final destination after having having achieved perfection.  It is a place of rest between incarnations.  The final place is, in my belief, moving to whatever then next step is beyond the incarnations, be it becoming a Spirit guide, or becoming a god.

I mean no disrespect, but that seems like more of a punishment than anything else - a living hell perhaps for someone who believes in reincarnation - because the very fact of their existance means that they haven't got it right. And if they feel they have lived many lives - then they aren't 'getting it' at all - seems more like torment. How can the life lessons that one is supposed to learn, be lessons without any information about the mistakes made previously, to work with?

Surely if you can't remember your previous lessons and goals from other incarnations - then they are new to you anyway!

I suppose what I'm not getting ... well, is the point of it really. Let's look at one life-time for example. Say Jane has a friend that needs her help - but she is busy at work and flicks them off. She then discovers that it was serious and they're in hospital in a coma at the hands of another person. She learns from this experience, and pays attention to her friends in future - to ensure she won't make the mistake again.

Jane has also just come out of her second abusive relationship. This time she's managed to identify why she is enabling this kind of behaviour and makes the conscious decision to change, because of her past experiences.

She's been in Customer Services, and the pent up aggression that she has not been able to vent at home, she's been venting at work - and has been very unpopular with Customers and co-workers alike. Her Supervisor met with her for an appraisal, asked the right questions without being overly critical - and she was able to confide in this person - and that helped her to get out of her abusive relationship at home and identify how NOT to face that situation again. Work relationships are now good.

Jane has the benefit of experience and hindsight in THIS life. Not from other lives. Therefore what is the point of being reincarnated if it doesn't help you in the here and now?

What makes up her personality? Is this lost when she is reincarnated? If so, then she becomes a totally different person - how is that reincarnation? :) In the next life, if she is the same personality, is she not going to be predisposed to immerse herself in work and neglect her friends again, or get into abusive relationships, or be the office bitch? What good would living another life be in that case? Yes you will have different experiences - but when one reaches the end of their final reincarnation, do they remember all the lives they've lived at once - thereby knowing all the experiences and lessons?

Told you I didn't 'get it'. ;) Any explanation from someone who truly believes it - well I'd be extremely interested.

It is evident that one doesn't remember the lessons of in the human mind.  I believe the lessons learned are retained in one's Spiritual conscious rather than the human one.  IMO, the purpose for reincarnation is not so much to perfect the body, but to perfect the Spirit.  I believe the thought process of the human mind is completely separate from the thought process of Spiritual consciousness.  One's actions in the physical are influenced by this Spiritual consciousness, and these actions are a reflections of previous life lessons.  However, being of free will, we have the choice to act either in harmony with or in oppositions to these lessons, creating a whole new set of Spiritual lessons in the current incarnation.

The only way, IMO, that one would retain the same personality is if one learns nothing from the previous incarnation.  I mulligan if you will.  I believe that when one passes, the lessons of ones incarnation are reviewed with the God.  If one has learned nothing, then your "Groundhog Day" analogy would be instituted.  What one has learned in the last incarnation determines the circumstances in the next.  But I will remind you, although personality might be influenced by the Spiritual consciousness, it is the human mind that controls our actions.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: KissTheMiMes on October 07, 2010, 03:33:45 PM
I'm not sure exactly who said it, but I was thinking the other day about this topic and wondered if someone Could become a God when they are uh.. I don't know a word for it =/ for lack of better words I'm going to say balanced. What would happen to other Gods though? Would there be like Stadiums full of them eventually or would some return to Earth for the hell of it?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Carbon on October 19, 2010, 11:03:54 AM
Say Jane has a friend that needs her help - but she is busy at work and flicks them off. She then discovers that it was serious and they're in hospital in a coma at the hands of another person. She learns from this experience, and pays attention to her friends in future - to ensure she won't make the mistake again.

Jane has also just come out of her second abusive relationship. This time she's managed to identify why she is enabling this kind of behaviour and makes the conscious decision to change, because of her past experiences.

She's been in Customer Services, and the pent up aggression that she has not been able to vent at home, she's been venting at work - and has been very unpopular with Customers and co-workers alike. Her Supervisor met with her for an appraisal, asked the right questions without being overly critical - and she was able to confide in this person - and that helped her to get out of her abusive relationship at home and identify how NOT to face that situation again. Work relationships are now good.

Jane has the benefit of experience and hindsight in THIS life. Not from other lives. Therefore what is the point of being reincarnated if it doesn't help you in the here and now?

What makes up her personality? Is this lost when she is reincarnated? If so, then she becomes a totally different person - how is that reincarnation? :) In the next life, if she is the same personality, is she not going to be predisposed to immerse herself in work and neglect her friends again, or get into abusive relationships, or be the office bitch? What good would living another life be in that case? Yes you will have different experiences - but when one reaches the end of their final reincarnation, do they remember all the lives they've lived at once - thereby knowing all the experiences and lessons?


I believe in reincarnation but I think the examples you listed are simply things humans learn on their own.  For the most part I believe your personality is different from life to life depending on how your previous life was but there are things that 'stick' with ya.

I believe that when we pass on from this life we gain the knowledge of our previous lives until we are reincarnated again.  I don't really view reincarnation as repeating over and over until your 'soul' is perfect but more as something your soul is required to do (like jury duty for better lack of example :P). We come to the earth in human form to serve time and to perfect ourselves but I don't believe a soul is ever 100% perfected. 

My neighbor when I was younger used to say that earth was another planets hell.  I didn't think about it much until I got older but it makes me laugh because there are days where i feel like its true.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Curt on May 22, 2011, 06:22:53 PM
I believe in reincarnation. We are placed here to learn. No, I don't mean to learn how to make a million dollars or become a neuro surgeon. We are here to learn about life and what it is all about. Romantising animals as humans or humans as being above animals is NOT where it is at. There is a connectedness with all life...be it a tree, plant, animal of any kind or a mountain. If you think about it....this earth is millions of years old....and for millions of years things have lived on it. Was early man anything like mankind is today. I highly doubt it. Was he more savage? Probably. However savage in this instance is a relative term. It was mentioned in some thread I read that "in the olden times there was harmony between man and animals. Don't make me laugh! The thing is, re reincarnation...as I said, I believe it to be a learning process...not necessarily a karmic thing. Sure Karma can play a large part in it. That is not the main idea however, imho.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on May 22, 2011, 09:17:42 PM
I'm not so sure that we don't drop down to animals at times.

Buddha did.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on May 22, 2011, 09:33:12 PM
I'm not so sure that we don't drop down to animals at times.

Buddha did.

According to whom......a story written by a man?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on May 22, 2011, 09:48:17 PM
According to whom......a story written by a man?

Are you discounting Buddha and his story?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on May 22, 2011, 09:49:53 PM
No more so than I'd discount the bible.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on May 22, 2011, 09:52:23 PM
No more so than I'd discount the bible.

There is a lot to be said for that.   So you don't think you can regress back to an animal?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on May 22, 2011, 10:00:41 PM
I think we can return as anything we want, not a matter of regression. Who's to say that being human is Superior to being a tree or a rock or a frog? Each would present their own set of experiences.

As for the Buddha. He was said to have lived in the 6th century, yet it wasn't until the 5th century that the first council met to record his teachings.
I think I'd have more faith in these books if it could be documented that some scribe wondered the lands with the prophets and recorded their sayings and deeds from first hand knowledge.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: oldghost on May 22, 2011, 11:04:26 PM
Can we add an addendum to this thread ?. If so what would you come back as if you could come back as anything wanted. oldghost
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Passer Urbanus on May 23, 2011, 09:08:21 PM
To be fair, most people who believe in the Buddha?s teachings don?t view being reincarnated as an animal as being negative because animals are considered lesser beings.  In fact, in Buddhism, animals are capable of doing anything humans can do, within reason.  They can even achieve enlightenment.  The reason why it?s viewed as a comparatively unfavorable condition is because animals live much harder lives than we humans.  It?s not easy being an animal and trying to survive out in the wild.  Compared to living an easy life with a nice home and loving family, most people think it?s a less pleasing existence to be living out in the wild, having to live in the burning heat or freezing cold, hungry to the point of starvation sometimes, thirsty, always fearing that you?ll be attacked and killed if you?re a prey animal or smaller predator, or always worried that one day you won?t be able to catch your food if you?re a predator.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Wyldkat on May 23, 2011, 09:16:35 PM
I'm curious, so would be reincarnated as a beloved pet be considered favorable then?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Passer Urbanus on May 23, 2011, 09:40:33 PM
Indoor or outdoor pet? :P

Yeah, I can't see why being a loved pet, living inside a home (or just generally in a safe, comfortable environment), and with a constant supply of food would be a bad thing.  It's not the best option for attaining Nirvana.  But it's not a bad life by any means.  And, hopefully, a Buddhist would know that it takes many, many lifetimes to attain Nirvana so he or she wouldn't fret about living a single life where that's not possible, especially such a pleasant life.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Wyldkat on May 23, 2011, 10:54:56 PM
Thanks.  One of these days I'm going to do more research on Buddhism.  Sometimes I wish there were more hours in the day...
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on May 24, 2011, 07:57:03 AM
Thanks.  One of these days I'm going to do more research on Buddhism.  Sometimes I wish there were more hours in the day...

http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?album=72&pid=793#top_display_media

ETA:  www.buddhanet.net is a very good resource
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Wood Sprite on June 14, 2011, 07:28:01 AM
I believe in reincarnation. I just don't think anyone has a true grasp on what it really is. We each have bits and pieces of knowledge, but no one can see the whole picture. I think the OP has some ideas that are probably correct, but so do some of the other posters. Like Curt and some of the rest, I believe Karma is just Karma. It's not good or bad. I don't believe life, or the afterlife is geared toward reward or punishment. That's why I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. Heaven is supposed to be reward for a life well lived, while Hell is punishment for a life badly lived. I don't believe that. I think the Divine is much bigger than that. Reward and punishment is a purely human concept. It was developed by small thinkers to control other small thinkers. The Universe, and the Divine go far beyond anything we could imagine.

Here is what I have come up with so far...

Everything has a "soul", a spirit, energy force, whatever one wishes to call it. It is our sentient essence that lives on beyond this life. Each time that essence is manifested in a "life" form, it's for the purpose of learning a lesson or lessons that life has to offer. The knowledge is not carried from one life to the next, but is gathered by the essence to make it whole. No one can possibly learn all they need to know in one lifetime, but each life has specific knowledge in it that the soul, or essence retains.

I do not believe reincarnation is a progressive process, like moving up a ladder, with each life creating a slightly better person than the last. I believe it's like putting together a puzzle. Each piece is a life lived. Each piece completed moves the essence toward fulfillment, toward its wholeness. People we may be repulsed by in this life, we may have been in a past life, or will be in the future. People like Stalin, Hitler, and Hussein may have simply been pieces in the puzzle of their souls. One can not fully understand "evil" without being evil. One can not fully understand "good", without being good. In between, there is a massive amount of "ordinary". most of us fall into that category. It's all for the purpose of learning. It's not good or bad, right or wrong. It's just learning what we need to learn in the manner that our individual essence, or soul, needs to learn it. Once our essence rejoins the Universal energy, we all become part of the same energy flow again.

I also believe that we don't necessarily reincarnate back to this planet, or plane. If that were so, where would everyone/thing go when this planet dies? The earth is around 4.5 billion years old. Like all other life, it will die someday. Our Sun will die too. Nothing lives forever. In all of the Universes, I can't believe this little planet is the only one with life on it. To be practical, I believe the human race will go extinct long before the planet dies. All species a born, live for a time, then die off. So will we. If our souls are eternal, then they go someplace. If they reincarnate, they will have to find a new home when this one is no longer inhabitable. It stands to reason that we already go to other planes, other planets, for the lessons our souls need or desire.

Just my penny's worth. : )
BB  Ann
 
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Dreamer on July 06, 2011, 04:39:51 AM
I've heard that people are reincarnated back into their family through the subsequent generations.
That could be for any reason: to learn, to grow, to help someone else, to influence, or just to live and have another chance to get it "right."
But the explanation of the children with past life memories as well as the prodigies, there's got to be an exhistance of reincarnation.
Because energy continues is all I need for my explanation.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Starrry_Night on July 12, 2011, 03:24:04 PM
I have to agree with the majority of Wood Sprite's comment. Many people do believe that there are more universes and our spirits either stay in this universe or go to other universes; depending on whom you speak with. There is a reason that humans haven't been able to understand the entire brain and whether reincarnation is real or not and if it is what its really about; but dont ask m what the reason is cuz i do not know. :-p
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Shawnee on July 14, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
I believe when we die our soul (energy) goes back into the Universe to be placed into a new person. I think that is why people often feel as if they've known a new acquaintance forever or have a major dislike for them. The strong feelings we may have toward a time period, place, or whatever could be from past lives also. I'm open to the idea of parallel universes or other planets etc. Just seems like a waste of the universe if we are it kwim. Maybe the parallel universe can explain deja vu.

Sometimes I lean toward the idea that our souls are here to learn, grow, and become better. The only problem I keep having is will a specific soul ever be finished and if it is then what. Does it become a spirit guide or something else? I don't know.

I do believe all living things have spirit/energy. But when plants or animals die I think their spirits are used to replenish and feed each other. Our physical bodies would do the same if just placed in open graves of old.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Tsakara on July 21, 2011, 02:36:16 AM
I'm a bit different in this. I don't see each life as any sort of test to be overcome, or anything like that. I see it almost like a game. The point of living being the experience of living in and of itself.

To elaborate: Our souls are connected to the universal whole, but each individual seed of consciousness is unique, and collects experiences independently. That higher self chooses to reincarnate, and what to reincarnate into, and where. This higher self doesn't take all of itself, just the useful parts for that lifetime. Knowing the outcome is no fun and ruins the game after all. So in a way, Life is like the most vast, all encompassing multiplayer game ever conceived.

I believe we have a good deal of freedom of movement, we can combine ourselves with the universal core, or split off to form a separate consciousness, we can incarnate, or we cannot. 
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on July 24, 2011, 07:59:58 PM
I'm a bit different in this. I don't see each life as any sort of test to be overcome, or anything like that. I see it almost like a game. The point of living being the experience of living in and of itself.

To elaborate: Our souls are connected to the universal whole, but each individual seed of consciousness is unique, and collects experiences independently. That higher self chooses to reincarnate, and what to reincarnate into, and where. This higher self doesn't take all of itself, just the useful parts for that lifetime. Knowing the outcome is no fun and ruins the game after all. So in a way, Life is like the most vast, all encompassing multiplayer game ever conceived.

I believe we have a good deal of freedom of movement, we can combine ourselves with the universal core, or split off to form a separate consciousness, we can incarnate, or we cannot. 

Interesting. 

None of us really knows what will happen until we pass.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on August 03, 2011, 12:42:02 AM
Interesting. 

None of us really knows what will happen until we pass.

Not so. Each of us has our own experiences to fall back on. it's just a process of remembering.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: marisol on September 06, 2011, 12:43:27 AM
I believe in reincarnation and the  constant learning process of the spirit, Summerland is like
the train station. The Divine keeps things running smoothly, placing each spirit on the train
running in the direction it needs to go. To give each a little push towards what it must learn to
live a new life.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: white weasel on November 23, 2011, 07:36:06 PM
I look at life as a time of learning. In each life there is a lesson or lessons to be learned.  When your work is done in one life then you will leave that plane and go back to Summerland.  There you will remember everything that you have learned from all your lives. Time spent there is used to help one another and to rest before going on to the next life to learn the next lesson needed.  Think of it as going thru school, each life is a level of school or training, as you complete one level you learn more and become more useful. The more we learn the more we can do and the more we can help others. Just as becoming a Doctor takes many years of schooling, then to become one with the Gods and Goddess must take many lifetimes to learn everything you need to know.  And who says that all lives are lived on this planet or even in this reality. Not everything can be taught in just one school or world.  Also I do believe in the law of Karma, in that what we do in this life will affect us in the next one.
The reason I believe is simple really. I have held both animals and Humans as they passed over.  I have felt the life energy leave there body. The feeling was the same in both.  I felt the life leave, it is something you can feel, It is real as real as the Sun in the sky or the moon at night.  I am not very good putting my feelings into words.  So I hope you who read this can understand what I am trying to get across.  And before any points it out I already know I am the worlds worst speller :)
Blessing to you all!
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Earthbound Spirit on November 23, 2011, 11:27:40 PM
Not so. Each of us has our own experiences to fall back on. it's just a process of remembering.

I wouldn't dispute it.  It's not something I give too much personal thought to though.  Life is a step forward not back to the way I see it.  I'll probably f it up again.......
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: blue on November 24, 2011, 11:43:58 AM

 But maybe it doesn't matter if you fck it up.

 What if it's not about the growth and evolution of our ego but the growth of our soul.

 The ego, or our identity, knows only the concerns of this mundane world. If it's our ego that transcends then it follows that we would be more successful in the everyday world with every incarnation.

 This probably isn't true. If they're being honest, most religious leaders will tell you that the person dies and it's only the soul which transcends into the afterlife.

 If it's all about purifying that little spark of the divine within each of us then the rules are completely different.

 Imagine if you were purifying gold. What you would do is put it in the furnace and begin burning off all of the impurities. It might take a series of passes but with each turn it is improved until eventually it's perfect.

 If that's the case, then all of the suffering you've been through has been like the hellfire furnace of purification.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: iridescence on November 24, 2011, 06:27:12 PM
But maybe it doesn't matter if you fck it up.

 What if it's not about the growth and evolution of our ego but the growth of our soul.

 The ego, or our identity, knows only the concerns of this mundane world. If it's our ego that transcends then it follows that we would be more successful in the everyday world with every incarnation.

 This probably isn't true. If they're being honest, most religious leaders will tell you that the person dies and it's only the soul which transcends into the afterlife.

 If it's all about purifying that little spark of the divine within each of us then the rules are completely different.

 Imagine if you were purifying gold. What you would do is put it in the furnace and begin burning off all of the impurities. It might take a series of passes but with each turn it is improved until eventually it's perfect.

 If that's the case, then all of the suffering you've been through has been like the hellfire furnace of purification.

Amazing, blue. I'm certain, too, that it is much, much bigger than us and our potential mistakes....

So much... There is so much within history that seems to need to be seen like a collection of transparencies together with each sheet illustrating a historical time period.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on November 24, 2011, 06:44:44 PM
I just went back to post one on this thread. Interesting to see the many idea's put forward, some with similarities yet none in total agreement. Just goes to help prove the concept that for every individual there exists at least one explaination.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: blue on November 24, 2011, 07:29:50 PM

 Reminds me about the parable of the blind men and the elephant dm.

 How could anyone ever know really. The truth of what happens in the afterlife might be incomprehensible to us because to know would be to understand the mind of God.

 It could be that we live .... we die .... and that's all folks !
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on November 24, 2011, 07:44:58 PM
 Or, we can not understand the "after life" as each of us is but one piece of the greater puzzle that is God, and being but one piece, we can not see the whole until we, in turn, become one with it.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: iridescence on November 25, 2011, 03:03:22 AM
Reminds me about the parable of the blind men and the elephant dm.

 How could anyone ever know really. The truth of what happens in the afterlife might be incomprehensible to us because to know would be to understand the mind of God.

 It could be that we live .... we die ....
and that's all folks !

And sometimes we come back, however altered the time span of 10,000 years, accordingly, has made us. It seems to be biblical...
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: blue on November 25, 2011, 09:31:02 AM

<------ Scratches his head

 Beats the hell outa me.

 I'm just a dumb old carpenduh.  :)
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: nya on January 20, 2012, 03:51:59 PM
So, who was who in a previous life? (and don't say Cleopatra)
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: oldghost on January 20, 2012, 04:53:26 PM
You asked , you go first . Cleopatra could really have use a nose reduction.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: dark magus on January 20, 2012, 05:05:23 PM
It's my view that when we die, our life force returns to the source. We merge with and become a single entity. When we return to what ever plane of existance we head for, we pick up what ever energy we might need. That energy may have come from any number of different personalities that hold trace memories of individual past lives. When we arrive at where we are headed, we may have times we seem to recall those elements of memory, but they are not "ours".
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: nya on January 20, 2012, 05:09:24 PM
Well, I hope I was Queen Boudicca, to keep to the Celtic theme of this website. Reincarnation is not my thing,  but if it is true I was probably someone normal and boring.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on January 20, 2012, 05:40:58 PM
Anyone you strongly identify with, can be said to incarnate through your life. They don't even have to be dead. The Cult of celebrity and all the nutjobs that it throws up is symptomatic of this.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: crystalenka on January 22, 2012, 09:01:29 PM
There was a really, really interesting comic-strip style thing that I saw a few months ago that talked about exactly that, and I can't seem to dig it up.

A brief summary, however.... it begins with a young man who has just died. He goes through the light, yadda yadda, ends up having a 'what is the meaning of life' discussion with god. (I don't capitalize because I'm not sure which one the author referred to. ;) ) Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, but at the end it was revealed that every living being was the same person or fragments of the same 'soul', if you will. That 'soul' or being had to experience everything and everyone.

I believe the last bit of dialogue was along the lines of:

"But, Father, what happens when I've been everyone?"

"Then, my son, you become a god, just like me."

And it ended with the guy being sent back as a baby was born.

I don't really see this as being the case, but I thought it was an interesting perspective. Also, if anyone finds this (it was online somewhere) I would love to have the link.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on January 23, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Well, I hope I was Queen Boudicca, to keep to the Celtic theme of this website. Reincarnation is not my thing,  but if it is true I was probably someone normal and boring.
Boudicca married into the Iceni to strengthen the alliance with her own Tribe, the neighbouring Trinovante.

The Trinovante were already well established here by 500bc when the last Celtic diaspora began. And the name Tri-novante in Roman Latin means "New Trojans". Which, along with other pre-Celtic artifacts, and myths, and the presence of Arcadian Greek Temples being the first buildings in what is now, London suggests that the origins of Boudicca's Tribe, were refugees from Troy. The earliest ever recorded War.

Boudicca's hair was famously red, and her eyes were green. And there are only two geographical markers for this rarest of eye colours. I've known for a long time that one of them was Scotland. And the other? Turkey. So Boudicca may have been descended from Priam and Hector's line.

Another interesting fact is that instead of the practice of (by 50ad) inheritance being passed through the male line, like all the other English (but not Irish) Celts, and the Gauls, Boudicca's recently deceased Husband was only King Consort. The Trinovante/Iceni/& Durotriges alliance counted lineage from the Distaff. So when her Husband died, the Romans misunderstood, and thinking that the Tribe had no King, turfed Boudicca out, as old baggage, and put the raep to her three Princess daughters.

They wanted to install a Roman Legate to rule, because The Alliance had not openly resisted Rome yet, and the other Tribes were all riddled with Druids, and kicking off left right and centre. In fact, all of the Legions except the one at Colchester were up at Holy Island, Anglesey, throwing the last of the Druids over the cliffs to drown.

So it took them by surprise when Boudicca's outrage brought the whole Alliance down on them. Within 2 days, they were all dead, and Colchester razed to the ground. Then London too. When news reached Anglesey, the already worn out Legions force marched right down to London, and almost, almost lost the whole of Albion. To a Ginger chick. 
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: marisol on January 24, 2012, 06:46:22 AM
D### Romans just ruined everything they came across. I have always admired Queen Boudicca.
Fought to the end, a very courageous women.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on January 24, 2012, 10:31:30 AM
D### Romans just ruined everything they came across. I have always admired Queen Boudicca.
Fought to the end, a very courageous women.
Yeah, right.
What have the Romans ever done for us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLLMfWmiC0E&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLLMfWmiC0E&feature=related)
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Khara on January 24, 2012, 11:23:30 AM
Yeah, right.
What have the Romans ever done for us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLLMfWmiC0E&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLLMfWmiC0E&feature=related)

Well besides the cool letter numbers.....

Let's see, sewers (which I think we can all agree are a GOOD THING), glass windows, fire brigades and fire extinguishers, odometer, concrete......
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on January 24, 2012, 11:44:04 AM
Well besides the cool letter numbers.....

Let's see, sewers (which I think we can all agree are a GOOD THING), glass windows, fire brigades and fire extinguishers, odometer, concrete......
I had a theory once about how their numerical system was a major disadvantage to them, and may have been instrumental in the fall of the Empire. Just try doing some Arithmetic with them. How can you run an empire with math like that?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Khara on January 24, 2012, 12:06:10 PM
I had a theory once about how their numerical system was a major disadvantage to them, and may have been instrumental in the fall of the Empire. Just try doing some Arithmetic with them. How can you run an empire with math like that?

It was the cool factor they were playing on.....   ;)
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: KissTheMiMes on February 09, 2012, 12:56:40 PM
(basic) Scientifically speaking, when we die, our bodies energy is released as heat and/or consumed by bugs. Science does not acknowledge a "soul" of any sorts... So when DM said
Quote
It's my view that when we die, our life force returns to the source. We merge with and become a single entity. When we return to what ever plane of existance we head for, we pick up what ever energy we might need. That energy may have come from any number of different personalities that hold trace memories of individual past lives. When we arrive at where we are headed, we may have times we seem to recall those elements of memory, but they are not "ours".

is it the "soul" being referred to when we pick up energy after we have died?
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on February 09, 2012, 01:50:44 PM
(basic) Scientifically speaking, when we die, our bodies energy is released as heat and/or consumed by bugs. Science does not acknowledge a "soul" of any sorts... So when DM said
is it the "soul" being referred to when we pick up energy after we have died?

What happens after we die is pure speculation. Conjecture.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: KissTheMiMes on February 09, 2012, 02:02:33 PM
What happens after we die is pure speculation. Conjecture.

Well after I die, I think I'll dance.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Serpentium on February 09, 2012, 08:10:16 PM
Well after I die, I think I'll dance.
That's a good idea, (better than many I've heard) If such a thing is possible, I might even dance with you.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Michelle on February 10, 2012, 07:44:47 PM
Don't really know where I stand on the idea of reincarnation. Personally I believe that when we die we just end. That's it. Nothing.

I'm prompted by a theory of sorts: If you built a mechanical man and it had an off switch, we would not see it as being dead should we use that switch as we can of course turn it back on. It's not really alive.

However, let's go forward a few hundred years. Our mechanical man has had countless upgrades and improvements. Biological parts replace the mechanical ones. Eventually we can no longer tell the difference between him and us. We "know" he's not real because we "built him", yet when we go to switch him off he now pleads to be kept "alive" and fears the "death" that would follow with his termination. As he is now mostly biological such a shutdown would indeed be irreversible.

Is this entity alive? Would his "spirit" go on?

My point is that simply because we are biological beings doesn't really mean we are truly alive. It's quite a concept but goes along the lines that believing you are a living thing is merely a property of being a biological entity. When the biology stops, the biological machine has merely shutdown.

Having said all that, how come I have memories that are not my own? I once voiced these memories to my mother who turned white as I told her. She then told me of my brother who had died some years before I was even born. What I was remembering were his memories. I didn't even know I had a brother.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Scorched Eartha on February 11, 2012, 04:39:50 AM
I kind if half arsedly believe in reincarnation. Probably only as a result of a few hard to explain any other way events or memories I have experienced.

But at any rate it doesn't really matter to me much. I've a hard time coming to terms with how much of our precious and sadly limited time on this plain is used up in speculation over what might await us on the next.

Maybe we come back again in another corporeal body to re-learn lessons we missed excelling in first time round. Maybe the Pantheists are right and we become part of the life force of the whole planet and universe. Maybe even the Christians are right and there's an up and down elevator to eternal bliss or eternal damnation.

I dunno. The only people who do know for sure are not in any position to communicate to us what the truth is. Because they're...well...dead.

And why waste the hours on cogitating it? Whatever will happen will happen. We have no power to make it otherwise. And there is so much to learn here. So much to see. So much to taste and smell and drink and yes - so many people with whom we have the chance to dance.

Seems to me the only real sin possible is to eschew any of that in favour of pointlessly worrying over and speculating on what might lie at the end of a path most of us will never come near to fully exploring.

What a wicked waste of this beautiful gift of life we have all been given.



Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Michelle on February 11, 2012, 06:26:08 AM
So true SE. A dog lives for only about 11 or 12 years. Perhaps it's just a cruel joke of the Gods to create something so beautiful, so faithful and loving, and then to only allow it such a short time.

A dog doesn't spent it's time stressing over such things as reincarnation. At least I hope not.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: The Pet Goddess on February 11, 2012, 06:36:30 AM
As I said somewhere on this forum just recently, I am a medium and I still have issues with believing in past lives or spirits.

Just a few days ago, I was talking with a friend and I told her there was a man in a hunting coat standing behind her.  He was turned sideways and kept acting like he couldn't wait to go.  I could tell he had a bad attitude and so didn't know why he was there.  Then I saw a young boy with a noose around his neck.  I had seen the young boy before when working with this friend.  It turns out that the man was the abusive father of the young boy who hung himself.  They were the uncle and cousin of my friend.

How did I see them if they weren't really there? 

As an Atheist, I believe all is energy, both the material and the so-called spiritual.  How it all works is beyond me.  It doesn't bother me that I don't have a clue.  Que sera sera.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: The Pet Goddess on February 11, 2012, 06:44:09 AM
I guess I lost track that this thread is about past lives. 

My father and I have always had a bad relationship.  During a past life regression, I saw my father and I in the same past life.  That experience went a long way in helping me see my father in a different light.  Our relationship is still the same, but my father's comments no longer have the affect on me that they once had.  Understanding has gone a long way in enabling me to cope and heal.

There have been other past life regressions that have shed light on issues I have in this life.  I find past life regression to be very theraputic.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Scorched Eartha on February 11, 2012, 07:22:10 AM
I had a past life reading done once and it was pretty freaky. Never met the woman. Spoke with her for only a  few minutes before she began the reading and that was very basic stuff like date and time of my birth and the place etc. Not a digging for clues kind of conversation at all.

She told me about my most recent previous life in the most detail and it shocked the shyte out of me. because it was almost word for word a disturbing recurrent dream I had been having for years.

In this dream I was a small black girl and I knew...I just knew I lived in Louisiana near a swamp. I have never been to Louisiana nor seen many images of it but in the dream I was overtly aware that this was where I lived.

The house we were in was no more than a shack and I was always being pursued in a terror by an older male and I always knew that if he caught me I would die. The dream always ended with me looking down at the body of this girl (she was about 11 from what I could tell) as she lay partially covered by sticks and branches in the swamp at the back of the house.

I would always see this as if I were from the vantage point of an overhead movie camera and be drawing back...going higher and higher hovering above the scene until I could see the swamp in detail and the girl was just a speck in the midst of it.

I always woke up at that point and felt an overwhelming sense of sadness and betrayal far more than fear.

This woman said to me: Your last life was lived in the American South in the 1920's. It ended abruptly and far too soon. You'd lived a life of poverty and abuse to that point and I keep seeing a man who ended your life. It ended very violently. He is also black and he is very close to you. I think he was your brother and he murdered you to keep you quiet about something. That's why your soul was so troubled when it left you. It felt utterly betrayed by this man you loved deeply.

That's one of the things I mean when I say I do kind of believe in reincarnations. I cannot for the life of me rationalise away the manner in which a woman I did not know and had spent so little time speaking with could possibly have just lit on a recurrent dream I had been having for years and which I had discussed with no one.

And that was precisely the way this dream had always made me feel.

Also when you talk about regression being therapeutic. I have never had that dream again since the day of that reading. it's like knowing about that sad child's ending on a conscious level stopped her needing to get  me to see her in my dreams.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: The Pet Goddess on February 11, 2012, 08:27:21 AM
Very interesting, SE.  I am hoping the little girl is at peace now.  Is there a relationship in your life that could explain the feelings of the young girl towards her brother?  It is said that family members often reincarnate together.

I "died" during a tonsillectomy as a young child.  I heard someone screaming and screaming.  From that, I have been haunted by thinking death is something terrible to experience.   

During a past life regression, I saw myself as a pioneer woman who saw her husband and two young children murdered by Indians.  I screamed myself into insanity.  When I came out of the regression, I knew the screaming I had heard had been me in a past life.  I am so glad to have that puzzle solved.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Scorched Eartha on February 11, 2012, 09:32:27 AM
Yes. My second eldest brother (17 years older than me) was a proper gobshyte. A violent drunk. I always feared him and cut him out of my life absolutely over 15 years ago.

I know...I had made that connection almost immediately. As if maybe she had been coming to me to warn me of him and what he might be capable of doing.

Weird huh?
This is why i say I don't give a lot of thought or time to the notion of reincarnation. I just kind of accept it as a given and get on with this plane. It's the only one I have any power to direct isn't it?

Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: KissTheMiMes on February 11, 2012, 12:52:01 PM
Does anyone remember Hudini saying if there was a way to come back he would? It's said there has been nothing. Maybe he changed his mind, maybe there is nothing, or maybe he was reincarnated and doesn't remember his past life.
Title: Re: Reincarnation
Post by: Scorched Eartha on February 11, 2012, 06:50:54 PM
Serp is the resident Houdini expert... fascinated by him. He will know the answer to this. I imagine we just need to wait for him to log on and we will find out.
 ;D