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 1 
 on: February 10, 2018, 04:26:31 PM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by blue
It's part of my nature to believe nothing and question everything. I can't help it; it's just part of who I am. It began in elementary school, in Britain in the 1950s, and continued through secondary school where our teachers were telling us stuff that was demonstrably bogus, especially about religion (I failed the final Religious Knowledge exam......). And I've been questioning everything ever since, in religion, in spirituality, in politics, in economics, even in science.......

The aforementioned article by Thomas Sheridan, whoever he may be, is a typical case. His contention is that Wicca has been co-opted by the CIA as a way of keeping "intelligent and idealistic" people from asking awkward questions; but, apparently, it hasn't occurred to him that his own beloved Thelema might be just as vulnerable to co-option.

It's a matter of historical record that Good Ol' Uncle Aleister himself published pro-German propaganda during WWI, but claimed to be secretly working for British Intelligence; and during WWII he claimed to have been in close collaboration with both British and American military intelligence. It's also a matter of record that L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, was for many years a member of Crowley's O.T.O., but claimed to have infiltrated the Order on behalf of U.S. Naval Intelligence (the O.T.O., of course, had its origins in Germany in the 19th century, which would in itself have been sufficient grounds, in the 1930s and 40s, for the Allies to pay the Order close attention). What if the O.T.O., unbeknownst to its rank and file members, is in fact a front for the CIA, NSA or some other Government agency? I'd say it's not beyond the bounds of possibility.

I often suspect, in some of my more subversive moments, that there are few "fringe" organizations that haven't been co-opted to some extent, or at least heavily infiltrated, by Government intelligence agencies. It's well known that the spooks keep a careful eye on environmental and political organizations such as Greenpeace and the American Civil Liberties Union; do they also have a strong presence in more spiritually oriented organizations such as, for example, the AMORC Rosicrucians, the Temple of Set, the Church of All Worlds, and, yes, Thelema, and, yes, even some of the traditional Wiccan groups?

Many Wiccan groups have recently been making strong efforts to become acceptable to the mainstream of society. And yet, in doing so, I suspect they have to a great extent lost their heart and soul - a heart and soul which is (or should be) subversive, transgressive, heretical. Witchcraft, as I understand it, not only "thinks outside the box", in the jargon beloved of corporate CEOs without really meaning it - but breaks the box up altogether; from this point of view, Wicca is just another box. There is perhaps some truth in Sheridan's assertion that today's Wicca serves as a diversion - but not to keep the crazies out of Thelema. I suspect, at times, that both Wicca and Thelema, and other "fringe" groups, serve as diversions to keep the "follower" types away from genuine Witchcraft by allowing them to feel "superior" in belonging to a "proper" initiatory organization, while the really creative, dangerous and heretical individuals self-initiate, write their own rituals, dance naked in the moonlight and invoke the true Soul of the World, the Universal Anima, in the shape of Hecate or, better still, the Morrigan; She who sees right through all our pretences, She who will not let us get away with half-truths, She who will not allow us to deceive ourselves.

I realise I've quite possibly annoyed more than a few people by putting these ideas forward; but, having spent time with and around a number of these groups and found them, for the most part, uninteresting; overly concerned with lineage and "legitimacy" rather than making things happen - intentionally, consciously creating new realities, to use my own definition of Magic - I've become a Solitary by choice, it seems. I'm not condemning all groups; most of these groups serve a purpose, and the best ones honestly do an excellent teaching job - but the only legitimate function of a teacher, it seems to me, is to bring the student to the point at which he or she doesn't need the teacher any more. We can't stay in elementary school all our lives - and even grad school doesn't last forever.

Perhaps, as I've said, we must not only "think outside the box" but ignore the box altogether, and each carve our own individual Pathway through the forbidding dark forest alluded to, obliquely, in all genuine mythology.

Blessed Be everyone, but especially all solitary Seekers,

Alchymist.

 It's probably just as well to question everything and most especially science. It's a belief system in itself. From time to time they have to revise their thinking when some new piece of information comes along. Science is taught as fact but solid facts don't change in the light of a new discovery.

 I've been digging back into Thelema and more specifically the O.T.O. I would agree that it's better to walk your own path than to mindlessly follow in the footsteps of another. As an outsider .... i'm given the impression that the degree system mirrors Crowley's own path of self discovery. At the end of the day he figured out that he was gay ?

 Going on that assumption i would think that he was a bit of a flaming queen. You know .... always stirring up drama in order to be the centre of attention ? Many gays, both male and female have a strong gender bias. That would explain why he viewed women as being inferior.

  The mystery schools often involve digging through mountains of useless material with a teaspoon in order to uncover that one little nugget of gold. That's a lot of work for very little gain. It's only for the truly devoted. For almost all others it's just too much like work. That might be why the fringe groups and even the larger organizations like the Freemasons have suffered huge membership declines.

  If you dig into the history of the O.T.O. there have been problems with maintaining enough of a membership to remain viable right from the beginning. In a competitive world you either adapt or fall by the wayside and become a minor footnote in the history of religion. That might explain why both Wicca and Thelema seek to be accepted as valid religions by society at large ?

 Another way of looking at things would be to say that all of these groups stood in direct opposition to the power of the Christian church. Maybe one could say that the battle was won and they no longer have any meaningful purpose ? That's why they seem to lack vitality ?

 On doctrine, rigid unchanging ritual, and a system of duly lineaged covens ....

 I suspect that it derives from Freemasonry. You might thing of it as a general framework that can be applied to government, a corporation, or a religion. A solidly built framework will stand the test of time and remain relatively unchanged from the core principles it was founded upon. It's like a cathedral of carefully constructed stone. This is both a blessing and a curse. It does well during times when the status quo remains relatively unchanged. It doesn't do very well in times of rapid change and evolution.

 Just different ways of looking at things. All grist for the mill.

 Kindly,

          blue

 2 
 on: February 09, 2018, 05:40:06 PM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by blue

 It's not to be difficult .... but it feels to me like some pieces of the puzzle are still missing.

 Now we know about narcissists. They're shallow people that are all about themselves and seldom learn or experience anything in depth. It's all about surface appearances. In order to truly be able to revel in lust you need to be selfish & self involved. Ain't it great to be young and be able to do that ?

 A problem comes up once you've begun to mature emotionally. Casual sex is like a meal at a fast food restaurant. It temporarily sates the hunger but it's not very satisfying. Kick it up a notch by introducing love into the mix and perhaps it's dinner at a five star restaurant because there's that emotional component. Take it a different direction and channel the energy of the creative force of the universe into a practice of magick and it's something else. Aspire to a level of personal development where one gains a certain capacity for love without limit and it's hard to say where that journey might take you.

 See ... it all gets confused sometimes. Sex, love, spirituality, God/Goddess. Where does one leave off and the other begin ? Perhaps what appears to be one thing is something entirely different. What would it look like if you treated sex as something sacred ?

 If you looked at Crowley and Uncle Jerry within the context of their time .... you could say they were really far out there on the edge. I can certainly see the appeal for thrill seekers.

 Today ... not so much. Why go to all of the trouble of bearding it with religion & ritual when there's tinder, AFF, swing clubs, BDSM alt. communities, Gay bars and just about anything you could ever want or need close at hand ? We're still quite repressed in our thinking but the edgy stuff is for the most part legal and freely available in this day and age.

 3 
 on: February 08, 2018, 11:06:00 AM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by Alchymist
Hi blue; I think you've got it just about exactly right. Couldn't have put it better myself!

Founders of new religions or new philosophies are the real innovators - Crowley, Gardner, Jung, Blake - but their followers are, mostly, mere imitators, saying "I'm a Gardnerian," or "I'm a Jungian." It takes much less mental effort to simply latch on to an existing system than to find your own way, although the system innovators can certainly help to point the way. But as William Blake said, "I must create my own System, or be enslav'd to another man's." It was also William Blake who said "The road of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom."  One hopes that those on "the road of excess" of sexuality eventually discover that the Palace of Wisdom lies further along that road. Some will, perhaps; many, unfortunately, may not.

Blessed Be blue and everyone,

Alchymist.

 4 
 on: February 08, 2018, 04:30:01 AM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by blue
My purpose with these "What if. . . ." posts is to stimulate thought and discussion. As far as discussion goes, not a great success, obviously; but perhaps some serious thought has happened?? - I see there have been over 700 views to date, at least, which is somewhat encouraging.

I'm no great fan of Crowley, who by all accounts was not a nice person; racist, misogynist, often cruel, conceited, unwise - I could go on; but his definition of Magic[k] is precise, almost scientific; "The Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with the Will." - a definition which, to be honest, a great many even intelligent people have misunderstood.

I'm no great fan of Thelema either; having been initiated, I know it from the inside to some extent. Crowley's mantra, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law", while again both poetically and scientifically precise in its meaning, has been interpreted by a great many people who should know better to mean "I can do whatever I want, and what other people want is irrelevant". This has led to the sad sight of many who call themselves Thelemites saying "I'm doing my True Will" while meaning "I want to have as much sex as possible with as many partners as possible". In such cases it's painfully obvious to any outside observer who hasn't been brainwashed into Crowleyanity that they're abject slaves to their hormones, but pointing this out does little good, and in extreme cases can lead to violence.

I pretty much abandoned Thelema many years ago, as it seemed to have degenerated - again, as was obvious to an unprejudiced observer - into something like Crowley worship; "Crowley said it, I believe it, that settles it. End of discussion." This kind of thing is a clear sign that an organisation has turned into a cult - again, a claim that Thelemites indignantly deny.

Blessed Be, Marisol and everyone,

Alchymist.

 I guess i would throw out a couple of things for consideration. Don't know all that much, but would heartily agree about people getting the idea of true will all wrong. I suspect that it has more to do with finding your niche in life. Some folks are meant to be fishermen and others great architects. There's an endless variety of things one could do in life but very few discover the thing that they're meant to do and be uncommonly good at. Many / most wander through life aimlessly subject to the will of chance.

 In so many ways life is a journey of self discovery. Perhaps that would apply to indiscriminate sex as well ? There's a saying that the path of excess leads to wisdom. Perhaps enlightenment doesn't come until after one has been through it all ? There must be a hundred and one little niches out there that people get preoccupied with. Frustrated desires become the foundation of insanity but once you've been there and done that things sometimes come into focus. The novelty wears off and it all becomes rather meaningless & mundane. Maybe then ... you're ready to ascend to a higher level of awareness where sex is put into it's proper perspective ?

 It sounds like the Crowleyites are mostly followers ? In that way, they're probably no different than people of any other religion. They don't really think for themselves or blaze their own trail. They just need to be told where to go, what to do, and what to believe in. Just like in any other group of animals, there are mostly betas and a relative few alphas.

 The thing to do in assisting others to discover their true will would be to help them figure out for themselves if they are leaders or followers and provide for their needs accordingly ? Get them into the right niche within an organization or society at large ?

 5 
 on: February 07, 2018, 07:05:46 PM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by blue

 I think to some degree ... you have to look at Crowley and even Gardner within the historical context of their time. The general attitudes of society were different back then. Women's suffrage happened in the 20's. The sexual revolution and women's lib didn't come along till the 60's and 70's. It might be a mistake to judge them and to say that they don't conform to today's accepted standard.

 A couple of key things to consider:

1: Narcissistic personalities have been around forever. They're often driven to excel, sometimes uncommonly brilliant, and most often a royal pain in everybody's ass. Quite often they're the catalyst for change but they tend to alienate themselves with others.

2: Paranoia often runs hand in hand with narcissism. When things aren't going their way it's always somebody else's fault. Conspiracy theory abounds and knocking their arguments down with reason is like playing " Whack A Mole ".

 Sometimes they REALLY are out to get you when you're a troublemaker. Othertimes, the persecuting entities like the intelligence agencies don't even know you exist.

 6 
 on: February 05, 2018, 10:34:19 AM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by Alchymist
My purpose with these "What if. . . ." posts is to stimulate thought and discussion. As far as discussion goes, not a great success, obviously; but perhaps some serious thought has happened?? - I see there have been over 700 views to date, at least, which is somewhat encouraging.

I'm no great fan of Crowley, who by all accounts was not a nice person; racist, misogynist, often cruel, conceited, unwise - I could go on; but his definition of Magic[k] is precise, almost scientific; "The Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with the Will." - a definition which, to be honest, a great many even intelligent people have misunderstood.

I'm no great fan of Thelema either; having been initiated, I know it from the inside to some extent. Crowley's mantra, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law", while again both poetically and scientifically precise in its meaning, has been interpreted by a great many people who should know better to mean "I can do whatever I want, and what other people want is irrelevant". This has led to the sad sight of many who call themselves Thelemites saying "I'm doing my True Will" while meaning "I want to have as much sex as possible with as many partners as possible". In such cases it's painfully obvious to any outside observer who hasn't been brainwashed into Crowleyanity that they're abject slaves to their hormones, but pointing this out does little good, and in extreme cases can lead to violence.

I pretty much abandoned Thelema many years ago, as it seemed to have degenerated - again, as was obvious to an unprejudiced observer - into something like Crowley worship; "Crowley said it, I believe it, that settles it. End of discussion." This kind of thing is a clear sign that an organisation has turned into a cult - again, a claim that Thelemites indignantly deny.

Blessed Be, Marisol and everyone,

Alchymist.

 7 
 on: February 04, 2018, 11:22:59 AM 
Started by Alchymist - Last post by marisol
Alchymist,

My opinion here may not agree with many. Aleister Crowley is in the past and has nothing to do with today. He was an amoral person, anti-semitic, and described women as moral inferiors. He described his ideology as aristocratic communism.

I just don't feel this is an appropriate comparison. Not meaning to speak ill of your writing or your opinion Alchy. But you did say, " ...what....do you think?"

No matter what people say of how intelligent he was, I believe he was quite insane and simply lusted for power where ever he could find it. Thelema was the perfect way to find it.

Blessings to you and yours,

Marisol

 8 
 on: February 04, 2018, 09:01:28 AM 
Started by RosaArkansana - Last post by marisol
Hi Rosa,

I have never agreed with avoiding authors unless I seriously disagreed the subject written about. All authors interject personal opinion into what is written. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes not. Each path is individualized, that is unavoidable. So read as much as possible, don't waste money though. If what you read feels troubling discard it. Trust first impressions. Good luck on your journey.

Blessings,

Marisol ;)

 9 
 on: January 17, 2018, 07:09:50 PM 
Started by Baschlesser - Last post by oldghost
May the path lead you to what you are looking for .

 10 
 on: January 17, 2018, 05:02:42 PM 
Started by Baschlesser - Last post by arrowolf
I will still look into the book for AODA, but for now my path lies with OBOD. I find a great connection at this point with them after reviewing their introductory material.

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