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Author Topic: Is Wicca for everyone?  (Read 6908 times)

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Kuerden D˙ghlas

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2015, 01:58:26 PM »

I don't feel this service would in any way prevent the seeker from finding
their way to Wicca, but it would make it easier for the seeker to skip the journey in finding their path. I am not sure that is a good  thing. Finding something too easily sometimes under minds the work needed to get where we need to be to make a life decision that may not be the correct decision.

I am not sure that it in any way would make it easier, as the contacts would still screen any applicants. And let's not forget that traditionalists often have longer and more strenuous training periods leading up to initiation. ;) Such a network existed in the past, yet it was no easier then to join a traditionalist coven. Ask any Old Guard.

We know and trust the traditionalists on this forum and please do not be offended when I say, we just don't know you very well yet. Give us a chance to know who you are. If all our traditionalists trust you, we will trust you.

None taken. Read my intro. It gives my background, but I doubt that it is going to mean anything to anyone except possibly another person in my tradition. Just sayin'.
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Ashe Isadora

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2015, 02:41:21 PM »

I see this as an effort to help people clarify their path, NOT TO RECRUIT. If anything, we are hoping to redirect folks who misunderstand Traditional Witchcraft or Trad Wicca so that they don't waste their time or end up down a path that isn't right for them.  Recruiting, proselytizing,pressuring people to "convert" is anathema to us, just as it is to every pagan tradition I know.

Marisol, I've seen no information on Kuerdon's posts that are not accurate, and I can spot bs pretty quickly.  I feel confident I can take his information at face value though I suspect he'd be happy to cite sources if we requested. If you disagree with his opinions speak your mind. You're a respected member. On my side my instinct is to trust him, but I'll leave it to others to make up their own minds.  Trust is earned and your statement about trust is fair.

Drac -  Elite?  I'll be swithered.  We've never heard THAT before. Seriously, we'd have to have a whole conversation about what "elite" means in the pagan community.  Could make a great thread, eh?
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marisol

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2015, 03:16:39 PM »

I see this as an effort to help people clarify their path, NOT TO RECRUIT. If anything, we are hoping to redirect folks who misunderstand Traditional Witchcraft or Trad Wicca so that they don't waste their time or end up down a path that isn't right for them.  Recruiting, proselytizing,pressuring people to "convert" is anathema to us, just as it is to every pagan tradition I know.

Marisol, I've seen no information on Kuerdon's posts that are not accurate, and I can spot bs pretty quickly.  I feel confident I can take his information at face value though I suspect he'd be happy to cite sources if we requested. If you disagree with his opinions speak your mind. You're a respected member. On my side my instinct is to trust him, but I'll leave it to others to make up their own minds.  Trust is earned and your statement about trust is fair.

Drac -  Elite?  I'll be swithered.  We've never heard THAT before. Seriously, we'd have to have a whole conversation about what "elite" means in the pagan community.  Could make a great thread, eh?

Thank- you Ashe. My concern for the health of this community makes me agree. Drac's concern merits discussion, I understand
what he speaks of. He would not have spoken of the possibility if he did not feel concerned.
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2015, 03:48:06 PM »

Perhaps elitist may not be the best term to have used, apologies. Perhaps a degree of superiority (again there is no insult intended) may be perceived.

When I say this, there are those who have come on here reasonably new to the Wiccan way, following a solitary path, and because we have some members here who are trad Wiccans, the newer 'acolytes' feel they are being belittled because they are excluded from issues such as the oath sworn aspects of the Wiccan craft.

There have been quite a few little altercations here concerning Wicca Vs wicca, Trad Vs Solitary; it's usually taken wrongly and the thread ends up getting drawn out despite explanations being offered up etc.

Personally, I have no issues whatsoever with any aspect of the Wiccan path, and I see there is no intended superiority either.

I remember a thread here somewhere that asked if Cunningham was good or bad for Wicca, the best response there was simply; Good, because he brought Wicca to the masses, and bad, because he brought Wicca to the masses. There could be the crux.
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2015, 03:49:23 PM »


Drac -  Elite?  I'll be swithered.  We've never heard THAT before. Seriously, we'd have to have a whole conversation about what "elite" means in the pagan community.  Could make a great thread, eh?


That could prove interesting Ashe, go for it.....
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I WAS the 5th rider of the Apocalypse, before they became famous.

Kuerden D˙ghlas

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2015, 04:24:33 PM »

I think a network is a great idea, I have seen many such on Farcebook claiming to be the definitive source. I always feel it falls way short of the target but hey, it's Farcebook after all  :-p A properly established network would be beneficial for those who wish to be initiated.

As stated from the beginning, that was the goal--to bring solitaries seeking traditionalist teachers together. Though I regret bringing up the topic now, frankly.

Perhaps elitist may not be the best term to have used, apologies. Perhaps a degree of superiority (again there is no insult intended) may be perceived.

Many Eclectics ALREADY perceive Trad Wiccan as elitist or superior acting. The fact is I am not BTW, but I nevertheless support more unity between Trad Witches and Wiccan. Anyway, should an Eclectic Solitary want to find a traditionalist teacher on the network, they're more than welcome. Or not. It's completely up to the individual. All it is at its most basic level is a directory. Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

It's not a directory FOR traditionalists only. It's a network to serve everyone, including Eclectics and Solitaries, seeking traditionalist teachers (who are, IMO, going the way of the dodo bird).

Yes, I do perceive quite a bit of distrust for the idea--and for me. Yes, yes, I do. Though I tend to think much of that stems from misunderstanding.

For the record, I'm not the least bit interested in recruiting. Quite the opposite actually. ::) I've already stated I do not feel Wicca or Witchcraft is for the masses. Recruitment is for orthodox religions, not Witchcraft.

How does anyone get to know anyone on a forum? I could name names of elders who have known me for years in the "real world," I could post my photo and link to my professional website. I could send you books that I've published. But you still wouldn't "know" me. You'd just know that I'm a professional publisher ... and good at it. ;D
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marisol

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2015, 05:25:34 PM »

Kuerden how do we get to know each other? Spend time here making friends, talk about anything else, not about cells (I personally hate that word). Don't try to sell us something we may  not want. You are a publisher trying to sell an idea. But we are not buying
if we don't know if you can be trusted.

I'm sure you do regret bringing up an idea no one will swallow without chewing. I'm sure you have faced mistrust due to misunderstanding before. Be patient that is how trust is earned. Share who you are with us. Then you never know you might succeed.

BB
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Kuerden D˙ghlas

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2015, 05:50:49 PM »

Kuerden how do we get to know each other? Spend time here making friends, talk about anything else, not about cells (I personally hate that word). Don't try to sell us something we may  not want. You are a publisher trying to sell an idea.

I'm not selling anything. (I will, however, send you a free book if requested.)

But we are not buying
if we don't know if you can be trusted.

Trust is a two-way street.

I'm sure you do regret bringing up an idea no one will swallow without chewing.

I put it all out there on the "plate" for digesting. What I did not anticipate was the hostility.

I'm sure you have faced mistrust due to misunderstanding before.

Wow. You're making some assumptions there.

Be patient that is how trust is earned. Share who you are with us. Then you never know you might succeed.

BB

Yes, indeed. (Sharing that I am a publisher is telling you something about myself outside of "cells" and the forum), but even THAT was misconstrued.

If you want a "character reference," I'll provide some names ...

B*B
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 06:16:57 PM by Kuerden D˙ghlas »
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marisol

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2015, 10:19:33 PM »

Kuerden  I would never ask for a reference from anyone on TCC. My impressions re: members are developed through  observation and interactions. We are a tight knit community, most of us know and trust each other. We have helped each other through some difficult times. We may at times find trust hard to come by due to past events. We protect our young ones.

I would love to read one of your books, but I am known for making assumptions. I can't say I am always right, but I have learned the hard way to be cautious. Ashe says you are a good guy, I think very highly of her. So, we will see. Give us time to digest what you
have said. Be patient.

BB
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Draconis Rex

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2015, 10:34:58 PM »

I think a network is a great idea, I have seen many such on Farcebook claiming to be the definitive source. I always feel it falls way short of the target but hey, it's Farcebook after all  :-p A properly established network would be beneficial for those who wish to be initiated.

As stated from the beginning, that was the goal--to bring solitaries seeking traditionalist teachers together. Though I regret bringing up the topic now, frankly.

No, please don't feel regret bringing this up, I think it's a great idea and one that has probably been needed for quite some time now. There will be some resistance until people understand what the aim is. Unfortunately our venue is a forum which is not the same as sitting round a table. Perceptions vary according to the individual. We have had people coming on asking for recommendations to a Coven, or asking how would they know if they had found a reputable Coven to join, this is where a network would benefit those people, and KNOW they had found the right place for them.

Please consider that, if when you start a new business, you present a business plan to certain parties seeking the support you need to get it off the ground. You are going to be asked for explanations, maybe even challenged to some degree. This is not to put you down but for the purpose of gaining understanding of where the business is going, and to glean the sincerity of the proposer or the venture itself.

I don't want to appear negative and if I have I apologise, it was not intended.

Quote
Perhaps elitist may not be the best term to have used, apologies. Perhaps a degree of superiority (again there is no insult intended) may be perceived.

Many Eclectics ALREADY perceive Trad Wiccan as elitist or superior acting. The fact is I am not BTW, but I nevertheless support more unity between Trad Witches and Wiccan. Anyway, should an Eclectic Solitary want to find a traditionalist teacher on the network, they're more than welcome. Or not. It's completely up to the individual. All it is at its most basic level is a directory. Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

It's not a directory FOR traditionalists only. It's a network to serve everyone, including Eclectics and Solitaries, seeking traditionalist teachers (who are, IMO, going the way of the dodo bird).

Yes, I do perceive quite a bit of distrust for the idea--and for me. Yes, yes, I do. Though I tend to think much of that stems from misunderstanding.

For the record, I'm not the least bit interested in recruiting. Quite the opposite actually. ::) I've already stated I do not feel Wicca or Witchcraft is for the masses. Recruitment is for orthodox religions, not Witchcraft.

How does anyone get to know anyone on a forum? I could name names of elders who have known me for years in the "real world," I could post my photo and link to my professional website. I could send you books that I've published. But you still wouldn't "know" me. You'd just know that I'm a professional publisher ... and good at it. ;D

Underlined bits, my point exactly. With more understanding people will see the direction this will be going in.

Please forgive me I have to go and get ready for work now, I will try to get back to this later.
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Kuerden D˙ghlas

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2015, 11:13:24 PM »

I don't want to appear negative and if I have I apologise, it was not intended.

Not at all. You have been exceptionally gracious. Thanks.

B*B
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LadyOfShalott

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Re: Is Wicca for everyone?
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2015, 09:39:25 AM »

I get it, Lady of Shallot.  I really do.  But there's a key difference to bear in mind.  Christianity teaches there's one true way to salvation and the different denominations are convinced everyone. should believe as they do.

Trad Wiccans don't give a rat's patoot what anyone else believes, including other pagans and witches. We only ask questions if you call yourself Wiccan because that label  has a particular set of practices that defines it.  We certainly don't believe Wicca is the One True Way.

I think this point is often missed.

Completely agree, Ashe, thank you for pointing this out. I think it's one of the reasons I find my seeking so enjoyable. I'm free to find what works for me, and no one here has ever had anything but helpful suggestions,  no judgements!
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