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Author Topic: Pardon me...  (Read 8829 times)

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CuriousOne

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2010, 08:43:28 PM »

I was raised in a fundamentalist Pentecostal family, and I went through a phase of serious hatred towards Christianity because of some of the things the Pentecostals did to me.  They performed exorcisms on me when I was 9 years old because I wanted to deviate from their dress standards and skip a couple of church services.  I live in the Bible Belt too. lol I don't know if its this way for everyone, but I think the time my anger was helpful in 'getting over' some of it.  I don't know what your experiences have been with the Pentecostals, but if they're anything like my family you probably haven't had an easy time.  Just remember that not all Christians are as pushy and quick to relegate everyone who's not like them into hell as most Pentecostals are.  I'm curious, were you raised in a Pentecostal environment, or just exposed to it from extended relatives?  Just wondering because the Pentecostal doctrines are extremely fear-based and for me it was really important to recognize that fact as I explored other options.  Sometimes I found myself drawn to other non-heathly (IMO) fear-based paths simply because they felt familiar. I'm not Wiccan either, there's not really a label that fits me other than pagan, but even that is a little off because I do love the story of Jesus, but don't believe that the Bible is 100% accurate or even all 'good'.
My mother was raised pentecostal (her father was a Pentecostal preacher, though she isn't a church goer anymore) and her mother is now a devout Pentecostal. I have been to church with my grandmother numerous times, and I have to say that the people were nice, but seemed so downtrodden. I've never experienced a group of people who seemed to put so much of themselves into something so...translucent. I totally agree that the religious groups I am familiar with are fear based, and I don't like that. I like to believe that as long as what i do doesn't hurt anyone, it's fine. Personal choices are just that... personal. I'm -high fiving- the statement you made about the Bible. it's a nice story, but putting stock in it is like picking up Alice in Wonderland and starting a religious group based on that. (Maybe that's not quite fair and a little over exaggerated, but still...) It's a story, and people have every right to believe it if they choose. I choose to think there are other things that would fit my personality and beliefs better.
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CuriousOne

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2010, 08:44:48 PM »

"I had a sordid past..how do you think I got this scar??"  "Grandma, we thought you were kicked by a Clydesdale..."  "No...this is the mark of the whore!!!"   ;D

This is so wrong... yet I'm smiling.  :-p
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Snake-Man

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2010, 08:47:11 PM »

My mother was raised pentecostal (her father was a Pentecostal preacher, though she isn't a church goer anymore) and her mother is now a devout Pentecostal. I have been to church with my grandmother numerous times, and I have to say that the people were nice, but seemed so downtrodden. I've never experienced a group of people who seemed to put so much of themselves into something so...translucent. I totally agree that the religious groups I am familiar with are fear based, and I don't like that. I like to believe that as long as what i do doesn't hurt anyone, it's fine. Personal choices are just that... personal. I'm -high fiving- the statement you made about the Bible. it's a nice story, but putting stock in it is like picking up Alice in Wonderland and starting a religious group based on that. (Maybe that's not quite fair and a little over exaggerated, but still...) It's a story, and people have every right to believe it if they choose. I choose to think there are other things that would fit my personality and beliefs better.

*runs off to form the Church of the Mad Hatter*   ;D
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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2010, 08:50:41 PM »

*runs off to form the Church of the Mad Hatter*   ;D

Excellent suggestion. I am now High Priestess of the Cheshire Cat Cult, we don't exorcise the demons, we just work with them.  8)
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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2010, 09:11:25 PM »

My mother was raised pentecostal (her father was a Pentecostal preacher, though she isn't a church goer anymore) and her mother is now a devout Pentecostal. I have been to church with my grandmother numerous times, and I have to say that the people were nice, but seemed so downtrodden. I've never experienced a group of people who seemed to put so much of themselves into something so...translucent. I totally agree that the religious groups I am familiar with are fear based, and I don't like that. I like to believe that as long as what i do doesn't hurt anyone, it's fine. Personal choices are just that... personal. I'm -high fiving- the statement you made about the Bible. it's a nice story, but putting stock in it is like picking up Alice in Wonderland and starting a religious group based on that. (Maybe that's not quite fair and a little over exaggerated, but still...) It's a story, and people have every right to believe it if they choose. I choose to think there are other things that would fit my personality and beliefs better.

If they're part of the United Pentecostal Church or any of the more conservative branches of pentecostalism, translucent is a very accurate description.  These branches tend to put their dress standards and appearance rules above anything else.  Anyone deviating from the rules of appearance are automatically branded as someone who has turned away from Jesus, or to use that common Pentecostal term - 'backslidden'. lol

I do believe that there are some good things in the Bible, but they can be found in most other non-Bible based religions too.  There is so much fear in the Bible though, God bragging on Job and to prove a point allowing Job to lose his family, possessions, and health, God ordering Abraham to kill his son and then stopping him before doing it, but honoring him for his willingness to obey, etc. etc. etc.  So many things in the Bible seem contrary to Jesus' message.  Jesus said that the whole of the law could be wrapped up in "Do unto others as you would have them do until you" (which is much like the Wiccan Rede of if it harms none do as you will).  If this is the whole of the law, where does that leave all that other stuff in the Bible?  The Bible states that homosexuality is an abomination, but yet homosexuality doesn't violate the golden rule.  The first of the 10 commandments is 'have no other god's before me" but nothing about worshipping 'gods' or 'god' is mentioned or implied in the golden rule.  The Bible also says "judge not", but yet gives you all these examples of Biblical characters judging people.

I think (just my opinion) that modern christians have gotten way off course from Jesus' message, and probably ancient christians and the people who put the Bible together did too. 

Some people consider me a christian because I believe in Jesus as a diety and follow the golden rule, but I also have practiced magic in the past and am starting to again, am bi-sexual, don't go to church, don't believe in all of the Bible, and certainly don't think that believing in Jesus negates any possible belief in other religions or paths. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 09:13:27 PM by aloe »
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CuriousOne

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2010, 10:06:18 PM »

  Some people consider me a christian because I believe in Jesus as a diety and follow the golden rule, but I also have practiced magic in the past and am starting to again, am bi-sexual, don't go to church, don't believe in all of the Bible, and certainly don't think that believing in Jesus negates any possible belief in other religions or paths. 

The further into time we get, the harder it is to pinpoint a group to situate ourselves into, IMO. It is so much easier for society to categorize with labels, that it becomes a necessity to fit into one group or the other. it's when a person doesn't really 'fit' that they are cast out and perhaps labeled as 'freak' or 'other'.

This 'other' doesn't conform to the principles of most religious organizations, because there exists too much of a personality, as opposed to one who is undeveloped. (By undeveloped, I mean 'lacking personal growth and character of self').

Even here, with as little as I know, I have found that there are things that my personality may not jive well with. Only time will tell. As far as everything else, we all all rapidly becoming 'other'.
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Snake-Man

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2010, 10:25:51 PM »

Just out of curiosity...what exactly is the Pentacostal Dress Code??  Is it anything like the Amish, as in, plain dresses, bonnets, and black suits for the men??  Or is it like the Mormons and JW's, where they just wear plain white shirts and black slacks or skirts??
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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2010, 05:38:40 AM »

Just out of curiosity...what exactly is the Pentacostal Dress Code??  Is it anything like the Amish, as in, plain dresses, bonnets, and black suits for the men??  Or is it like the Mormons and JW's, where they just wear plain white shirts and black slacks or skirts??

As far as the ones I was raised with, most of the rules are for women.

Women: Dresses and skirts only, no pants, hemline must be at least 6 inches below the knee, sleeves to the elbows (covering the elbows in some churches), neckline must cover the collarbone, no jewelry of any kind (not even wedding rings), no cutting or coloring hair, and no makeup. 

Men: No shorts or sleeveless shirts, no jewelry, hair must be kept short and no beards or mustaches.

I hear that they're letting go of this rule, but when I was growing up there was no TV allowed. We didn't have a TV in our house and I had never been to a movie theater until I was 16. lol

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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010, 06:34:00 AM »

The further into time we get, the harder it is to pinpoint a group to situate ourselves into, IMO. It is so much easier for society to categorize with labels, that it becomes a necessity to fit into one group or the other. it's when a person doesn't really 'fit' that they are cast out and perhaps labeled as 'freak' or 'other'.

This 'other' doesn't conform to the principles of most religious organizations, because there exists too much of a personality, as opposed to one who is undeveloped. (By undeveloped, I mean 'lacking personal growth and character of self').

Even here, with as little as I know, I have found that there are things that my personality may not jive well with. Only time will tell. As far as everything else, we all all rapidly becoming 'other'.

Good points. :)
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Snake-Man

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 11:56:36 AM »

As far as the ones I was raised with, most of the rules are for women.

Women: Dresses and skirts only, no pants, hemline must be at least 6 inches below the knee, sleeves to the elbows (covering the elbows in some churches), neckline must cover the collarbone, no jewelry of any kind (not even wedding rings), no cutting or coloring hair, and no makeup. 

Men: No shorts or sleeveless shirts, no jewelry, hair must be kept short and no beards or mustaches.

I hear that they're letting go of this rule, but when I was growing up there was no TV allowed. We didn't have a TV in our house and I had never been to a movie theater until I was 16. lol

Yeesh...how dreadfully plain and boring.  And I thought the Evangelical Free Church I used to go to was strict.  They didn't really have a dress-code, but everyone always dressed nice for service (i.e., no t-shirts and shorts, that sort of thing).  But, they preached no smoking, no drinking, no dancing, no holding hands, no PDA, no tattoos, no piercings, no rock-and-roll..........it got to the point where I just said "No thanks!"


Also...I don't quite understand the Pentecostal's "no wedding-ring" rule.  The wedding ring is a symbol of the couple's undying love, as well as (in the Church sense, at least, all the Church's I've been in) God's unbroken, undying love.  So why the hell would they have a problem with it??  Just curious...

But then again, pretty much all churches seem a little weird to me...
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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 12:29:07 PM »

Also...I don't quite understand the Pentecostal's "no wedding-ring" rule.  The wedding ring is a symbol of the couple's undying love, as well as (in the Church sense, at least, all the Church's I've been in) God's unbroken, undying love.  So why the hell would they have a problem with it??  Just curious...


It doesn't make sense - but the deal was that they rejected all gold and silver "adornment".  Their take was that all symbols are nothing but idolatry, and that a couple's commitment was in the heart and if they're living their commitment, symbols are unncessessary. 

The inconsistencies were pretty hilarious though.  A necklace would send you to hell, but you could wear a huge feather thing in your hair and that was OK because it wasn't gold or silver.  Doesn't make much sense if the purpose is to avoid "adornment".  lol  Some of them are letting up on the dress standards while others are getting harsher. 

A lot of the women look more 'normal' now, but when I was there, we looked similar to the FLDS women.  :-p

It's basically "No fun! No merry making!".  I've been told by my family (about 85% of the fam is fundamentalist Pentecostal) that my cars and motorcycles have become my "idols" and are therefore a sin because I have more fun in them than I ever did in their church. LOL!!!!
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Snake-Man

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 12:34:30 PM »

It's basically "No fun! No merry making!".  I've been told by my family (about 85% of the fam is fundamentalist Pentecostal) that my cars and motorcycles have become my "idols" and are therefore a sin because I have more fun in them than I ever did in their church. LOL!!!!

Now that's funny!!!  What do they want you to do...sell your vehicles, get a horse and buggy, and live like the Amish??

Also...have you ever heard of "Rodders for Christ"??  They're a group of Christian car-guys and hotrodders.  I don't belong to them, because, well, I'm not a Christian, but...I've seen them at car-shows and they seem like a decent bunch of people.


PS--My friends and I have a hotrod club we started about 6 years ago called the "Devil's Pit".  'Nuff said.   ;)
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Hjolmaer

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 02:50:57 PM »

So how often do you guys hang out with the RoC-ers?
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Snake-Man

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2010, 03:24:02 PM »

So how often do you guys hang out with the RoC-ers?

We don't.  Only time we really interact with them, if at all, is at shows, and usually it's just a glance at their booth, or if they have cars there, we're checking those out and asking them technical questions about the cars.  Religion never gets brought up.  However, I have noticed that when we pass by their recruiting booth, with all of our members wearing the club colors, they do seem to give us some uneasy looks.  *shrug*  Oh well.

Here's our logo, in case you're wondering:

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aloe

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Re: Pardon me...
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2010, 05:05:08 PM »

Now that's funny!!!  What do they want you to do...sell your vehicles, get a horse and buggy, and live like the Amish??

Also...have you ever heard of "Rodders for Christ"??  They're a group of Christian car-guys and hotrodders.  I don't belong to them, because, well, I'm not a Christian, but...I've seen them at car-shows and they seem like a decent bunch of people.


PS--My friends and I have a hotrod club we started about 6 years ago called the "Devil's Pit".  'Nuff said.   ;)

According to their doctrines (not that the higher ups actually live this, but they teach it) all possessions should be functional only, not something that would attract attention.  So it would be ok to have a 'nice' car, as long as it was quiet and non-flashy. My cars (and bike) just don't fit the criteria, so I get little hints about "idolatrous possessions" thrown out at me a lot.  Oh, and having more cars than you need just because they're fun, that's a sin too.   ::)

No I haven't heard of the Rodders for Christ.  They probably are a decent group, they definitely wouldn't be Pentecostals with all those idols.  ;)

One of my friends has "She-Devil" painted on the scoop of her mustang, she'd love your logo. lol

Does your club have a site or have you posted pics anywhere on here?  I love cars. :)  My husband has 3 trucks and a Harley and I have 2 mustangs and a Yamaha - motors are our hobby.  8)  We don't build hot rods exactly, just restore and up the horsepower whenever we can.  I have a 99 GT, and a 65 GT.  Hubby has a 65 chevy shortbed, 68 GMC, and then his everyday driver Silverado. 
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