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Author Topic: Appoligies to ALL  (Read 3233 times)

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Mystik Witch

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Appoligies to ALL
« on: May 12, 2015, 07:16:03 AM »

Hi;
I guess I have made a mess of things here. I didn't know Wicca was such a CLOSED religion. By closed I mean, "Only entrance to Wicca is through being a descendant of Gerald Gardner or being a descendant of some other Wiccan who can hand down the religion to you." I wanted to tell you ALL how sorry I am if I had offended you in this process as well.

I really thought I was studying and understanding a wonderful opportunity to worship a religion that fit ME. I didn't realize Scott Cunningham and Raymond Buckland was so deceiving in their books. It sure felt right to me when I read them and had some VERY spiritual experiences while studying them. I guess if I have to be a descendant of a Wiccan or other of Gerald Gardner in order to be of the Old Religion, then I will just do my own thing like I have most of my life.

I see there is no way to be accepted into this area. I enjoy reading the information on this website and I will come back from time to time when I have questions and need to find the information. Please know, I won't bother anyone of you anymore with my stupid questions. If I can't find the answers myself I will just have to hope MG and FG will offer them to me. I wish you all have a wonderful life.
MW.
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MoonlitWings

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 07:58:52 AM »

Descendant of Gardner or descendant of some other Wiccan? O.o; Huh? You mean literal descendant?
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C_A

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 08:05:22 AM »

You've NOTHING to apologize for.  NOTHING.

Let me rephrase, (which I seldom do)...

Traditional Wicca, (BTW & Orthodox Wicca in particular - there are others), IS as was described.  There are many here who, through one mechanism or another, (lack of a local covenstead or having a really bad one locally), are solitary practitioners.  For that matter, I am a solitary practitioner because of that very reason. 

SOME of us are, indeed, initiates of many of those aforementioned Traditions.  This is something we hold VERY dear.  This is something we were trained for over the course of years by people who were also trained over the course of years, and that training was validated with degreed initiations.

Think of it like this.  You finish high school.  You get a diploma if you did it well enough.  You go to college.  You get another, same way.  If you drop out, (but study really really hard for the next 20 years), you can't award yourself a Ph.D. 

This is only "A" difference, not "ALL" differences.  As A.I. mentioned, "real" Wicca, (note the case of the "W"), cannot be found in books or on the web.  I have checked.  A lot.  It's not out there.  At least not in plain sight.

Accept, please, that you CAN be wiccan, (again, note the case of the "w"). 

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C_A

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 08:06:30 AM »

Descendant of Gardner or descendant of some other Wiccan? O.o; Huh? You mean literal descendant?

Literal descendant.  Not by birth.  As a disciplinary descendant, YES.  Most assuredly.
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Khara

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 12:58:41 PM »

OK I'm snickering, I can't help myself. 

I find Mystik Witch to have a surprisingly compatible opinion to my own and the attitude of many (not all C_A) 'W'iccans here. 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The "W" club doesn't let everyone in MW and they have all those pesky rules and holier than thou attitudes.

No one here can say a word against Scott Cunningham or Uncle Bucky and trust me I have little use for the old lech Buckland.  No one here has done a 10th of what those two have done for wicca or Wicca combined. So ignore any comments on that line.

You'll have to find yourself a stuffy old coven MW or come over to the dark side as witches do it better, been doing it longer and OH YEAH We rock both sides of the balance train and land on our feet without the human rules, we stick to the Universe's rules and they trump Gerald Gardner and his sneaky lot every time.

Still snickering though.....
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Mystik Witch

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 01:39:25 PM »

Khara,
Your way of thinking sure sounds the best choice to me. Wiccan or wiccan what ever they want to call it is just fine. I still don't ever plan on being one of the stuffed shirt "W". It just isn't in my nature. I enjoy what I have read so far of Witchcraft, the deities, and how they relate to each other. So if this is what is considered being part of the Craft and not Wiccan or wiccan. SO BE IT!!! I choose to be a WITCH! I know this is just the first step in a very long road of learning. I do thank SC and RB for starting me on this path. I'm ready to learn as much as I can about this CRAFT.

I believe I will come over to your side. Witches do good for the earth, animals, and other humans. They believe in the deities. Of which I believe myself. I don't EVER intend on joining some stuffy coven. Not worth the hassle or the head strong individuals you have to deal with.

Thanks for your in put and support. It sure is nice to hear from someone else here that has somewhat of the same ideas as I do. Thank you!!! Khara.

MW
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C_A

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 01:59:56 PM »

No.  That isn't it.

What is inside my shirt isn't "stuffing" unless you want to consider the heart within it.

This is something that many of us take a great amount of personal gratification, down to our souls, in.  It is something that others may never feel.  It is something that uplifts us and sustains us.  It is something that connects us to our Divine.

To use a phrase from an old Harley tee shirt..."If I have to explain, you won't understand".  I have tried to explain.  If all it gives you is a stance from which to mock, (or, for that matter, to feel butthurt), then you not only won't understand, you can't.  And I'm okay with that.  I needn't belittle or ridicule.  I needn't poke, prod or pry.  The facts are as they are.  It is up to the individual to learn or not.
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Khara

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 02:16:12 PM »

No.  That isn't it.

What is inside my shirt isn't "stuffing" unless you want to consider the heart within it.

This is something that many of us take a great amount of personal gratification, down to our souls, in.  It is something that others may never feel.  It is something that uplifts us and sustains us.  It is something that connects us to our Divine.

To use a phrase from an old Harley tee shirt..."If I have to explain, you won't understand".  I have tried to explain.  If all it gives you is a stance from which to mock, (or, for that matter, to feel butthurt), then you not only won't understand, you can't.  And I'm okay with that.  I needn't belittle or ridicule.  I needn't poke, prod or pry.  The facts are as they are.  It is up to the individual to learn or not.

No one is mocking but if you re-read the girl's original post on self initiation many came off really crappy. 

I mean I have complained about the "holier than thou" attitude before.  Maybe the coven 'W'iccans should let the ones who are solitary deal with the solitaries or else maybe they should tone it down a bit.

I love YOU C_A but....  you know my thoughts on this.
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~*~ Iris for wisdom, bluebell for truth, juniper for protection, lemon for youth, eucalyptus for healing, plumeria for love, marigold to divine messages from the Goddess above. A spell that is simple, fragrant and sweet, and will open the hearts of those that you meet! ~*~

Khara

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 02:19:17 PM »

Khara,
Your way of thinking sure sounds the best choice to me. Wiccan or wiccan what ever they want to call it is just fine. I still don't ever plan on being one of the stuffed shirt "W". It just isn't in my nature. I enjoy what I have read so far of Witchcraft, the deities, and how they relate to each other. So if this is what is considered being part of the Craft and not Wiccan or wiccan. SO BE IT!!! I choose to be a WITCH! I know this is just the first step in a very long road of learning. I do thank SC and RB for starting me on this path. I'm ready to learn as much as I can about this CRAFT.

I believe I will come over to your side. Witches do good for the earth, animals, and other humans. They believe in the deities. Of which I believe myself. I don't EVER intend on joining some stuffy coven. Not worth the hassle or the head strong individuals you have to deal with.

Thanks for your in put and support. It sure is nice to hear from someone else here that has somewhat of the same ideas as I do. Thank you!!! Khara.

MW

Oh honey don't take my advice on anything. Do it because it works for you. 

I just see what is said many times in a different light.  I am as rabid about my faith as others are here. 

THEY just need to remember Wicca is a bastardized version of witchcraft and paganism combined and not much older than those giving the advice. 

Plus those damned rules....   
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~*~ Iris for wisdom, bluebell for truth, juniper for protection, lemon for youth, eucalyptus for healing, plumeria for love, marigold to divine messages from the Goddess above. A spell that is simple, fragrant and sweet, and will open the hearts of those that you meet! ~*~

Ashe Isadora

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 05:02:19 PM »

Mystic Witch, I noticed a phrase in your post that really made me think I need t come back and clarify something.  Neither Scott Cunningham nor Raymond Buckland wrote with any intent whatsoever to deceive. They both tried to share as much as they possibly could about Wicca, for the betterment of the Craft and for spiritual seekers.  They have added immensely to the Craft and to people's spiritual lives.  I love them both. They were both, especially Scott, caught up in the Craft politics of the 1980's and some internal strife in the pagan community that they were trying to help sort out. Scott especially had the very best of intentions, and as I stated before, his publisher called the shots about calling the type of paganism he was teaching, Wicca.  He and Buckland revealed as much as they could without violating their sacred oaths to make some aspects of Wicca available to the public.

I have a very soft spot for both. Scott basically brought me into the Craft and I'll always love him for that. If I in any way seemed to degrade them as witches or as people it was not intentional.

Their contributions will endure forever and the problems that happened I know they did not foresee.

I hope this clarifies the statements I made about both these gentlemen. Had it not been for them, many of us would never have found our way here.

Something else bears repeating.  Though Wicca is a coven based religion, that does not in any way diminish the power, beauty, and depth of knowledge a Solitary practice can provide  Neither is better, they are just distinctly different pagan paths.

B*B*  Ashe Isadora


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Khara

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 05:25:30 PM »

OK the snickering has increased tenfold!!

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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~*~ Iris for wisdom, bluebell for truth, juniper for protection, lemon for youth, eucalyptus for healing, plumeria for love, marigold to divine messages from the Goddess above. A spell that is simple, fragrant and sweet, and will open the hearts of those that you meet! ~*~

Mystik Witch

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 05:43:42 PM »

Ashe Isadora,
Thank you for clearing this up for me. I really did think that was what you were saying. I have enjoyed both of these men's books very much and have received some very powerful experiences from what I have read and used. I was only trying to get some clarification on fasting before a ritual is performed for someone who has never been able to fast due to health issues. I never thought my question would create a mess like this has turned into.

Khara,
Please don't think you are pushing me in any direction. My parents found out when I was very young, not to push me. I only bull up and do what I want anyway. Witchcraft and wiccan to me have always be one in the same. IN MY OWN WAY OF THINKING!!!! But thank you anyway for supporting me and making me see there is a different way of thinking.

C_A,
Please understand this is how I feel about things. You might have this holier then thou attitude and that is fine if that's how you want to be. You see things your way and I will see them in a different way. It doesn't mean both of us or even one of us are wrong. You might be farther along on your spiritual quest than I am. And you might think your kind of 'W'icca is the best. To me all are the same in the deities eyes. We are all here to learn and choose for ourselves what is the best for us. Yes, I am new to a lot of this. That doesn't mean I am less of a person or that it means less to me. I am just as devoted as you are and have just as profound of a love for the Craft as you do. Still, just because I am new to this doesn't mean I can't learn and understand just as much as you do, IN MY OWN WAY! You have opened my eyes to understand there are many different forms of 'W'icca and in some ways what clan I am looking to become. So, I thank you for that. Right now I am just wanting to know what 'W'icca in general is all about and what there is out there for me to choose from. ALL OF IT that I can find out. I know now there are things I will probably never know. If I am meant to know these things there will be a way for me to find out what they are.

So, please allow me and other Newbies to learn and understand in our own way. You can give your advise and knowledge and you can think you are better than the rest of us. It doesn't mean I am going to accept it, follow it, or believe you are better just because you are a 'W'iccan. So DEAL with it! But I will take what you say under consideration and chew on it.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help and information you have shared with me. I do appreciate it very much. Have a great night.
MW
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Mystik Witch

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 05:44:43 PM »

OK the snickering has increased tenfold!!

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Khara,
I agree with you this is STUPID!!!!
MW
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Ashe Isadora

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 05:59:27 PM »

Well MW, there's something behind the old saying that the Craft is not for the faint of heart.  If you were able to take all this in without running away screaming, you're probably gonna make it.

Flags, Flax and Fodder..... As they say, enjoy the journey.
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marisol

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Re: Appoligies to ALL
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 08:42:20 PM »

MW I do hope you will be back. What you have run into is simply a door with a capital "W" on it. There is a lock on this door you
don't have the key to.To possess the key you must do things a certain way and follow certain rules. No one is telling you can't
have the key, just that you have to earn the key. I agree with their thinking, but that doesn't mean you can't study wicca.

There are many solitary practitioners, and I prefer this idea of learning to do it my way. It does at times make it difficult, but there
is a freedom to learn what you want, when you want. To pick what you want to use in your workings. This does not make us less
than others, just different. You can dedicate yourself to any pagan religion you want to. There is alot of freedom to be who you want to be, not to be a duplicate of the person next to you.

It doesn't hurt to take a break, think about what you want and look around. You can use parts of wicca in your craft without a
diploma. You can do or be anything you want.

Blessings
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